[Traditional Enneagram] Am I a 4 or a 9

[peacfulmind]

Hi, Could you please help be figure out if I am a 4 or a 9? Both seem to fit and not fit at the same time. I want to know for the sake of self-discovery and as a path to personal growth. My explanation is a bit long because I wanted to be as precise as I can. Thanks []

About Me:
• Self-discovery is very important to me and I am always trying to discover who I truly am because I want to live as my authentic self (4, not 9).

• I am not as attuned to my emotions. I feel very uncomfortable with negative emotions and have a tendency to suppress them. When a negative mood hits I usually know that it is temporary and not that big of a deal and tend to look for a distraction until it possesses. (9, not 4) I love positive emotions though. I just like feeling good.

• I do not like conflict but will show my frustration and irritation when someone tries to control me. 2 negative emotions I notice the most is anger and disappointment. When my anger gets intense I have a ping pong match going on in my head between keeping the peace or telling someone off and when my disappointment gets intense I feel sad want to be dramatic and throw a tantrum but I keep it inside and do whatever I can to get rid of the feeling. (4 and 9)

• When my emotions are high I withdraw and want to be left alone and when people don't respect that and push me. I can get really angry, mean and harsh and I don't like feeling like that and just want it to go away. I'm not the kind optimistic person I usually am (4 and 9 I think)

• I don’t like to feel rushed (9)

• After being in a state of heightened emotions. I feel really drained and need to sleep or shut myself away for a while (4 and 9 I think)

• I like my space and like a 5 don't like intrusion on my space or time so in that way I am not so accommodating. I can take a passive aggressive stance when someone is demanding and needy. (?)

• I am not that open of a person and take my time to open up. I can sometimes come off as strange when I feel uncomfortable in social situations because I become self-conscious and will shut down (4 and Not 9 I think)

• I have low self-confidence and can be pretty self-conscious (4)

• I am sensitive and will take things to heart and will not forgive the person that hurt me but then I forget about it in some time. However, I don't feel the same way about that person again and will usually avoid them. (Sort of a combo of 4 and 9 and then contradictory as well)

• I tend to go through life in a bit of a haze (9)

• I get stressed out easily and I can feel the tension in my body. My emotions are more explosive when I am stressed or under pressure. (4, Not 9)

• I have never felt like I really belong, I usually feel like I am on the outside looking in but when I do feel like I belong it feels great (4)

• I have an issue with both envy and sloth (4 and 9)

• I tend to be self-absorbed and tend to think about myself first. However, I am also kind. I think about how my actions will affect other people and try not to hurt anyone. (4)

• I feel that my motivation in life is both self-discovery and peace. (4 and 9)

As you can see I am very confused and it is driving me crazy.

 

[Kasper]

My take as a core 9w8 with a rather influential 4 heart fix.

Sounds pretty 9 to me.

• Self-discovery is very important to me and I am always trying to discover who I truly am because I want to live as my authentic self (4, not 9).

I’m curious as to why you say not 9, as in what your understanding is of this point?

There are things written about 9s being un-self-aware and generally the common understanding of what that means falls short of accurate. 9s can be highly interested in seeking knowledge and understanding, the area this can be lacking is in practicality, just as some 9s can stick their heads in the sand and refuse to see reality, others can delve as deep as they can get on an issue however it can be just another form of avoidance if the knowledge gained isn’t used to make changes. Add to this having an interest in being aware and authentic does not automatically imply that one can be, 9s often have blind-spots with awareness that others may not be able to reveal.

From my own personal experience, since a child I’ve been interested in understanding myself and was always perceived as self-aware and mature by those around me however once I discovered I was a 9 a whole heap of new awareness came to light, 9s with our flexibility in who we allow ourselves to be seen as can appear more put together than any other type as our weaknesses typically impact ourselves more than anyone, if others don’t know my bad habits, and I’ve never consciously thought about them then how can I be aware of them or others point them out to me?

Short of it: Authenticity is of extreme importance to me, and self-improvement is the one interest in life I never get sick of pursuing, I just need to keep myself in check to make sure I actively use knowledge in a practical way.

• I am not as attuned to my emotions. I feel very uncomfortable with negative emotions and have a tendency to suppress them. When a negative mood hits I usually know that it is temporary and not that big of a deal and tend to look for a distraction until it possesses. (9, not 4) I love positive emotions though. I just like feeling good.

I would be interested to see if there is a 4 out there who could relate to that, it does seem highly anti-4 to me. Meanwhile 9s are a positive type, so up emotions are typically the preference. A 9 is capable of seeing the silver lining and ignoring the cloud.

• I do not like conflict but will show my frustration and irritation when someone tries to control me. 2 negative emotions I notice the most is anger and disappointment. When my anger gets intense I have a ping pong match going on in my head between keeping the peace or telling someone off and when my disappointment gets intense I feel sad want to be dramatic and throw a tantrum but I keep it inside and do whatever I can to get rid of the feeling. (4 and 9)

9 is in the anger triad, it’s our thang. Disappointment being relevant enough to note could be indicative of a w1. Keeping it on the inside and doing whatever you can to get rid of the feeling is so 9 (and also non-4) it hurts.

• When my emotions are high I withdraw and want to be left alone and when people don't respect that and push me. I can get really angry, mean and harsh and I don't like feeling like that and just want it to go away. I'm not the kind optimistic person I usually am (4 and 9 I think)

Both are withdrawn types so that’s expected. Again with the anger though, the issue with 9s and anger is often related to not feeling listened to/important/valuable, it builds resentment until we explode with rage, strike out with passive-aggression or critical comments or retreat into our own space to seethe.

• After being in a state of heightened emotions. I feel really drained and need to sleep or shut myself away for a while (4 and 9 I think)

A 9 vice can be over-sleeping, when things get too much we slow down, sometimes as slow as literally sleeping. Intense emotions don’t drain 4s as far as I know.

• I like my space and like a 5 don't like intrusion on my space or time so in that way I am not so accommodating. I can take a passive aggressive stance when someone is demanding and needy. (?)

9s hate pressure just about more than anything, passive aggressive is something we are good at, expressing anger openly can cause issues so we often pull back there, but we are angry. Pressure requires making a stance or taking action and we often know what we don’t want better than what we do, so resistance to being pushed rather than pro-actively saying no is common when we know we don’t want to do what is being asked.

• I am not that open of a person and take my time to open up. I can sometimes come off as strange when I feel uncomfortable in social situations because I become self-conscious and will shut down (4 and Not 9 I think)

Anyone with social shyness can be uncomfortable in social situations, and anyone can be self-conscious.

Both 4s and 9s can be difficult to get to open up, for different reasons, the 9 may look pretty open to others, does not mean they are though, the childhood message for 9s is love is conditional, you must be who others want you to be in order to be lovable, this means the easy going nature is often covering the need to appear however is acceptable, this is the area where 9s are sensitive, and one way of coping/protecting oneself is keeping the real stuff hidden where only those who show being yourself will not result in rejection can see.

• I have low self-confidence and can be pretty self-conscious (4)

Either/or. The 9 childhood message was; it’s not okay to be yourself. That can have an impact here.

• I get stressed out easily and I can feel the tension in my body. My emotions are more explosive when I am stressed or under pressure. (4, Not 9)

9s are the body type. What do you mean by explosive? Again it sounds like you’re talking of anger, not a vast range of intense emotions, just anger, in which case it’s a 9 issue, how we express anger is typically in line with our wing when we lose control, w1 is critical at self and others, w8 can be explosive rage. On the surface people would consider me a calm easy going guy, they rarely, if ever, actually see me angry, but within me I have an extreme level of rage that can build when I feel ignored, dismissed or mistreated, I pull it back and don’t let it show because I fear it taking control if I did, and I pretty typically start doubting my right to anger once I notice it and then tell myself the results of showing anger would not get me anything I want so am very calculated about it, but it’s there and my body is tense to reflect this.

• I have never felt like I really belong, I usually feel like I am on the outside looking in but when I do feel like I belong it feels great (4)

As a So dom 9 this is my life. The So 9 seeks belonging as a preoccupation, yet may be destined to never find it for more than a moment. I join groups all the time, however I’m always on the edges and never feel part of.

• I have an issue with both envy and sloth (4 and 9)

You probably have a connection to both.

• I tend to be self-absorbed and tend to think about myself first. However, I am also kind. I think about how my actions will affect other people and try not to hurt anyone. (4)

That one is interesting and I’d like to know how you perceive 9s here.

We’re not the giving type like 2s, we are largely self-interested {well, everyone is really), we’re unaffected and uninvested more than anything. Personally, I’ll help you if your there and it doesn’t bother me to, if I have to go out of my way though, you would have to matter and the inconvenience would have to be minimal.

• I feel that my motivation in life is both self-discovery and peace. (4 and 9)

I’d suggest take a look at the reactions of both types under stress, see what is applicable to you. Some decent authors on the topic imo are Helen Palmer and Sandra Maitri, it’s not about me or anyone telling you who you are, it’s about discovering the answers.

 

[Amargith]

Age matters. When I was younger, I was so in the throws of nonstop high intensity emotions that I didn't know how to handle that suppressing them was just a lifeline - to just get some peace. That said, I never stopped being intrigued by them and trying to master them in a way - again partly out of self-preservation but also out of curiosity and the fix I got from that same intensity in pleasurable emotions.

 

[peacfulmind]

Kasper, Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me. I can't explain to you how helpful this was. Its so kind of you to do this and I really appreciate it.

My take as a core 9w8 with a rather influential 4 heart fix.

I think you are right not sure about the wing as I don't really relate to a 1 or 8 that much

I’m curious as to why you say not 9, as in what your understanding is of this point?

The reason I said this was from everything that I have read about 9s it seems like they are trying to get away from self and put there attention outwards to numb or get away from there emotions which to some extent is true for me. I also am very self-conscious mostly when I am uncomfortable or feeling insecure and out of my element.

9s are the body type. What do you mean by explosive? Again it sounds like you’re talking of anger, not a vast range of intense emotions, just anger, in which case it’s a 9 issue, how we express anger is typically in line with our wing when we lose control, w1 is critical at self and others, w8 can be explosive rage. On the surface people would consider me a calm easy going guy, they rarely, if ever, actually see me angry, but within me I have an extreme level of rage that can build when I feel ignored, dismissed or mistreated, I pull it back and don’t let it show because I fear it taking control if I did, and I pretty typically start doubting my right to anger once I notice it and then tell myself the results of showing anger would not get me anything I want so am very calculated about it, but it’s there and my body is tense to reflect this.

Yes primarily anger and frustration.

As a So dom 9 this is my life. The So 9 seeks belonging as a preoccupation, yet may be destined to never find it for more than a moment. I join groups all the time, however I’m always on the edges and never feel part of.

I am a Sx so I'm thinking this plays out as a feeling of not connecting intimately in groups and being apart

That one is interesting and I’d like to know how you perceive 9s here.
We’re not the giving type like 2s, we are largely self-interested {well, everyone is really), we’re unaffected and uninvested more than anything. Personally, I’ll help you if your there and it doesn’t bother me to, if I have to go out of my way though, you would have to matter and the inconvenience would have to be minimal.

Makes sense. I interpreted 9s as a more outward type, so thinking of others first because of the being out of touch with the self bit

I’d suggest take a look at the reactions of both types under stress, see what is applicable to you. Some decent authors on the topic imo are Helen Palmer and Sandra Maitri, it’s not about me or anyone telling you who you are, it’s about discovering the answers.

I do feel that I move towards 6 with anxiety, feelings of powerlessness helplessness, shutting down and not sure if this one is a 6 quality but wanting to run away

 

[peacfulmind]

Age matters. When I was younger, I was so in the throws of nonstop high intensity emotions that I didn't know how to handle that suppressing them was just a lifeline - to just get some peace. That said, I never stopped being intrigued by them and trying to master them in a way - again partly out of self-preservation but also out of curiosity and the fix I got from that same intensity in pleasurable emotions.

Very true, I don't think I was so in touch with my emotions when I was younger. I sort of lived my life in a haze kind of just floating through life. After becoming more spiritual, practicing meditation and allowing myself to let them out did I realize how much emotion I have stored in here.

 

[brainheart]

As an INFP you are going to relate to a lot of four traits. But I would say nine for you, especially because of liking positive emotions and distracting yourself from negative ones. Fours exaggerate negative emotions, big time.

Also, your username. That's about as nine as they get.

 

[Aurora James]

Sounds very Four-ish to me.

 

[Kullervo]

A lot of INFx 9s mistype as 4s, so your dilemma is not unusual.

Read this, it may help: http://www.timelessofficial.com/timeless/images/eidb/enneagramtypes4and9disambiguation.pdf