Can hard life circumstances such as going to jail, change someone's gut fix?

[The Great One]

So I've been wondering if hard life circumstances can change someone's gut fix. The gut fix that I am the most curious about is the 9 fix. So if let's say a peace loving 9w1 were to go to jail for whatever reason, do you think that the person's core type would change? Would they become like an 8 or so? Well I don't think that the person's core type would change personally, but I think that they may need to develop their 8 sub wing to survive for instance.

However, what about someone whom is not a core 9, but only has a 9 gut fix? Like me for example? I have a 9w8 gut fix and I tended to hate confrontation as a child and to shy away from it. However, because of life circumstances, I have been very poor in the last few years and have been forced to live in very ghetto areas. I have been tried several times in these ghettos, and it has forced to me to become much harder and to not shy away from confrontation like I previously did. In my opinion, just as a survival mechanism I have gotten a lot harder over the years and I have since become much more aggressive. Is it possible that my 9w8 fix has morphed into an 8w9 fix, or have I just developed the hell out of my 8 wing?

So do you think that hard life circumstances can change a person's gut type? Also, I can think of other situations that would harden up a person such as abuse, joining the military, prison, living in the ghetto, joining a gang, etc. But anyway, do you think that I am onto something with this?

 

[The Great One]

Nothing from anyone? Really?

 

[Thursday]

No. I think you may adopt another's style for the circumstance, but under it all is one core. I think masks are changeable, but the person underneath gets honed and refined, but not swapped.

 

[cafe]

I don't think so, myself. I think you just adapt as you have to.

I am laid back and hate conflict. I want to live and let live and all get along. You can't really do that when you have young children. It's your job to teach them and a lot of times they have very different ideas than you do about how things should be done. Ideas that could get them hurt or killed or would cause them to grow up to be assholes.

It can involve a lot of confrontation and over time, you learn to wear a bit of an air of authority just to save yourself the trouble of having to deal with constant knock down drag out conflict. What my grandma used to call "getting your bluff in."

So now that my kids are nearly grown and they know how we do things and they can be reasoned with, I get to be more like a roommate than the boss. I pull out the big guns when I need to and it usually doesn't bother me much to do it, but I prefer to do it as little as possible.

 

[Haven]

Just because 9s don't like conflict doesn't mean they never do it. Just read the story of Bob Ross - a 9w1.

Ross enlisted in the United States Air Force at age 17. The Air Force transferred him to Elmendorf Air Force Base[citation needed] (in Alaska), where he first saw the snow and mountains that later became recurring themes in his artwork. He developed his quick-painting technique to create art for sale in brief daily work breaks.[4] Having held military positions that required him to be, in his own words, "mean" and "tough," "the guy who makes you scrub the latrine, the guy who makes you make your bed, the guy who screams at you for being late to work," Ross decided that if he ever moved on from the military, "it wasn't going to be that way any more," vowing "never to scream again."[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ross

I wonder if every 9 fixer has a violent period in their life and then vows "never again." I've had a few.

 

[chubber]

Just because 9s don't like conflict doesn't mean they never do it. Just read the story of Bob Ross - a 9w1.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ross

I wonder if every 9 fixer has a violent period in their life and then vows "never again." I've had a few.

Feels familiar to me.

 

[The Great One]

No. I think you may adopt another's style for the circumstance, but under it all is one core. I think masks are changeable, but the person underneath gets honed and refined, but not swapped.

So then in my case, do you think that I just developed my wing.

 

[Thursday]

So then in my case, do you think that I just developed my wing.

I don't know you, but harsh circumstances bolster your best abilities and expose your weaknesses. If you chose to hone your inherent traits into masterful traits, this would of course include your enneagram+wing AND your dominant function/auxiliary functions. The result seems like something new because of the higher level of functioning on which you now operate.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

This is actually an interesting question [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION], one I have been considering myself. Actually, I've been wondering if I haven't changed types altogether. Here's my story:

In my own life, I'm pretty sure I was a 4w5 in high school and college. I THINK I was...it sounds like the most embarrassing things I've done with my life, anyway.

Yet, I've lived through several extremely harrowing years revolving around surviving with a severe chronic illness in a third world country with no family or friends around me, yet having to fight for existence every day of my life. I've been beaten and robbed, I've been infected with rare diseases, I've had important people in my life reject me, I've been mocked by the medical institution, and I would not wish my circumstances upon my worst enemy.

From this, I've become extremely rage-filled, confrontational, bitter, aggressive, cynical, and just unable to care. I've come to see life as a daily battle for survival and anyone who gets underfoot will simply be demolished; I have become incapable of feeling self-pity, or much of anything for that matter. I realized some time ago I was reciting everything in low-average 8 descriptions to myself without even realizing it (I knew about the enneagram prior).

It's been enough that, the more I learn about the enneagram, the more I wonder if I'm not an 8w9 and I just never noticed? I was so clearly a 4w5 before, which is why I continue to type this way...but I've so radically changed over the last 4 years or so that it's like the "old me" doesn't exist.

So, I'm not questioning changing fixes, but I sometimes wonder how these changes happen.

I think in my case, I'm just living in my gut-fix because I'm facing "gut issues", but who knows? In your case, Great One, I think you're simply taking on the cultural attributes of your time and place.

For instance, when I first came here (before I became bitter and twisted) people still found me direct because the US emphasizes direct communication. I've got a very image-oriented 3ish cast to my worldview simply because in the US we emphasize using "image" to get ahead in the work place, yet this isn't the way things work everywhere. We really do pick up the "cultural aura" of our surroundings, so this may be the case with you.

Anyhow, you're a 6, and 6s can be quite feisty even without an 8-fix. If you're really wondering, you should ask yourself if you're only adopting "normal" behaviors that help you get by, or if you're actually noticing 8ish motivations behind them.

Hope that helps.

 

[The Great One]

I don't know you, but harsh circumstances bolster your best abilities and expose your weaknesses. If you chose to hone your inherent traits into masterful traits, this would of course include your enneagram+wing AND your dominant function/auxiliary functions. The result seems like something new because of the higher level of functioning on which you now operate.

This is well put.

This is actually an interesting question [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION], one I have been considering myself. Actually, I've been wondering if I haven't changed types altogether. Here's my story:

In my own life, I'm pretty sure I was a 4w5 in high school and college. I THINK I was...it sounds like the most embarrassing things I've done with my life, anyway.

Yet, I've lived through several extremely harrowing years revolving around surviving with a severe chronic illness in a third world country with no family or friends around me, yet having to fight for existence every day of my life. I've been beaten and robbed, I've been infected with rare diseases, I've had important people in my life reject me, I've been mocked by the medical institution, and I would not wish my circumstances upon my worst enemy.

From this, I've become extremely rage-filled, confrontational, bitter, aggressive, cynical, and just unable to care. I've come to see life as a daily battle for survival and anyone who gets underfoot will simply be demolished; I have become incapable of feeling self-pity, or much of anything for that matter. I realized some time ago I was reciting everything in low-average 8 descriptions to myself without even realizing it (I knew about the enneagram prior).

It's been enough that, the more I learn about the enneagram, the more I wonder if I'm not an 8w9 and I just never noticed? I was so clearly a 4w5 before, which is why I continue to type this way...but I've so radically changed over the last 4 years or so that it's like the "old me" doesn't exist.

So, I'm not questioning changing fixes, but I sometimes wonder how these changes happen.

I think in my case, I'm just living in my gut-fix because I'm facing "gut issues", but who knows? In your case, Great One, I think you're simply taking on the cultural attributes of your time and place.

For instance, when I first came here (before I became bitter and twisted) people still found me direct because the US emphasizes direct communication. I've got a very image-oriented 3ish cast to my worldview simply because in the US we emphasize using "image" to get ahead in the work place, yet this isn't the way things work everywhere. We really do pick up the "cultural aura" of our surroundings, so this may be the case with you.

Anyhow, you're a 6, and 6s can be quite feisty even without an 8-fix. If you're really wondering, you should ask yourself if you're only adopting "normal" behaviors that help you get by, or if you're actually noticing 8ish motivations behind them.

Hope that helps.

Well it looks like you and I have had similar lifestyles. I also have lived in immense poverty and have struggled with numerous medical problems, and have not had the money to fix them. This has made me much more self-serving, much more id, and has made me much more aggressive. I also now view the world as a struggle to survive and no longer view it as a happy place anymore.

 

[The Great One]

I don't know you, but harsh circumstances bolster your best abilities and expose your weaknesses. If you chose to hone your inherent traits into masterful traits, this would of course include your enneagram+wing AND your dominant function/auxiliary functions. The result seems like something new because of the higher level of functioning on which you now operate.

This is well put.

This is actually an interesting question [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION], one I have been considering myself. Actually, I've been wondering if I haven't changed types altogether. Here's my story:

In my own life, I'm pretty sure I was a 4w5 in high school and college. I THINK I was...it sounds like the most embarrassing things I've done with my life, anyway.

Yet, I've lived through several extremely harrowing years revolving around surviving with a severe chronic illness in a third world country with no family or friends around me, yet having to fight for existence every day of my life. I've been beaten and robbed, I've been infected with rare diseases, I've had important people in my life reject me, I've been mocked by the medical institution, and I would not wish my circumstances upon my worst enemy.

From this, I've become extremely rage-filled, confrontational, bitter, aggressive, cynical, and just unable to care. I've come to see life as a daily battle for survival and anyone who gets underfoot will simply be demolished; I have become incapable of feeling self-pity, or much of anything for that matter. I realized some time ago I was reciting everything in low-average 8 descriptions to myself without even realizing it (I knew about the enneagram prior).

It's been enough that, the more I learn about the enneagram, the more I wonder if I'm not an 8w9 and I just never noticed? I was so clearly a 4w5 before, which is why I continue to type this way...but I've so radically changed over the last 4 years or so that it's like the "old me" doesn't exist.

So, I'm not questioning changing fixes, but I sometimes wonder how these changes happen.

I think in my case, I'm just living in my gut-fix because I'm facing "gut issues", but who knows? In your case, Great One, I think you're simply taking on the cultural attributes of your time and place.

For instance, when I first came here (before I became bitter and twisted) people still found me direct because the US emphasizes direct communication. I've got a very image-oriented 3ish cast to my worldview simply because in the US we emphasize using "image" to get ahead in the work place, yet this isn't the way things work everywhere. We really do pick up the "cultural aura" of our surroundings, so this may be the case with you.

Anyhow, you're a 6, and 6s can be quite feisty even without an 8-fix. If you're really wondering, you should ask yourself if you're only adopting "normal" behaviors that help you get by, or if you're actually noticing 8ish motivations behind them.

Hope that helps.

Well it looks like you and I have had similar lifestyles. I also have lived in immense poverty and have struggled with numerous medical problems, and have not had the money to fix them. This has made me much more self-serving, much more id, and has made me much more aggressive. I also now view the world as a struggle to survive and no longer view it as a happy place anymore.

 

[miss fortune]

Well it looks like you and I have had similar lifestyles. I also have lived in immense poverty and have struggled with numerous medical problems, and have not had the money to fix them. This has made me much more self-serving, much more id, and has made me much more aggressive. I also now view the world as a struggle to survive and no longer view it as a happy place anymore.

but it doesn't always have to go that way...

I've pointed out on here a few times that I've gone through some truly shit times... they were called my twenties. I worked my ass off to clean my life up and get to where I am today and I have had a real benefit in the fact that I'm a good worker and I'm assertive and naturally tough. However, I've developed sympathy for others in the same situation by going through it myself and my natural urges to protect myself can be extended to protect others and give them some of the advantages and information that I've wished that I had back when I was in their position. I fought tooth and nail to get to where I am (and I'm still working hard to get more power... mwa ha ha ha ha...) but if I get the feeling that you're trying and trying hard to clean up your own life I'm quite willing to put extra effort and extra backing in for you.

In other words I went from pretty much 875 to 825

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Well it looks like you and I have had similar lifestyles. I also have lived in immense poverty and have struggled with numerous medical problems, and have not had the money to fix them. This has made me much more self-serving, much more id, and has made me much more aggressive. I also now view the world as a struggle to survive and no longer view it as a happy place anymore.

I think what's happening here is that you're channeling 8ish energy because you're in a situation that calls for these defenses. We've all got the potential to access any of the types, and you're in circumstances where you have summoned this edge. I doubt your gut-fix has truly changed, but you have been in a survival situation, and you're going to think of life in these terms.

Enneagram is theory and Real Life is...real. Sometimes in real world situations, we do things that deviate from the theory, and your experience a good example of how this can happen.

 

[skylights]

I have a 9w8 gut fix and I tended to hate confrontation as a child and to shy away from it. However, because of life circumstances, I have been very poor in the last few years and have been forced to live in very ghetto areas. I have been tried several times in these ghettos, and it has forced to me to become much harder and to not shy away from confrontation like I previously did.

Enneagram does go very deep... in 9's case, the 9 numbs themself so as not to have to deal with pain. The 8, on the other hand, walls their vulnerability off so as not to deal with pain. So the answer to your question would lie in whether you have internally started to wall yourself off from your personal vulnerability to avoid hurt more than you create an internal atmosphere of calm to avoid hurt.

 

[The Great One]

but it doesn't always have to go that way...

I've pointed out on here a few times that I've gone through some truly shit times... they were called my twenties. I worked my ass off to clean my life up and get to where I am today and I have had a real benefit in the fact that I'm a good worker and I'm assertive and naturally tough. However, I've developed sympathy for others in the same situation by going through it myself and my natural urges to protect myself can be extended to protect others and give them some of the advantages and information that I've wished that I had back when I was in their position. I fought tooth and nail to get to where I am (and I'm still working hard to get more power... mwa ha ha ha ha...) but if I get the feeling that you're trying and trying hard to clean up your own life I'm quite willing to put extra effort and extra backing in for you.

In other words I went from pretty much 875 to 825

Well it was never I that screwed up, so to say. What happened is that both of my parents went to jail right when I got outta high school, and I went from being middle class to homeless over night. All of my college funds were spent on my parents lawyer's fees as well. So it's basically like I had to do everything myself and am coming up in society, all by myself. This has been a very shitty situation.

I think what's happening here is that you're channeling 8ish energy because you're in a situation that calls for these defenses. We've all got the potential to access any of the types, and you're in circumstances where you have summoned this edge. I doubt your gut-fix has truly changed, but you have been in a survival situation, and you're going to think of life in these terms.

Enneagram is theory and Real Life is...real. Sometimes in real world situations, we do things that deviate from the theory, and your experience a good example of how this can happen.

I think that developing my 8 wing, could possibly explain what's happening.

Enneagram does go very deep... in 9's case, the 9 numbs themself so as not to have to deal with pain. The 8, on the other hand, walls their vulnerability off so as not to deal with pain. So the answer to your question would lie in whether you have internally started to wall yourself off from your personal vulnerability to avoid hurt more than you create an internal atmosphere of calm to avoid hurt.

Well let me explain what I am doing now: I am basically like a Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill, when she was training with Pie Mai. Mentally it's almost like I am punching a tree everyday, in order for my hands to eventually callus so that I can mentally punch without feeling any pain anymore. So in other words, I am trying to get as hard as possibly as to avoid pain. So I guess that would be under the category of numbing myself wouldn't it?

 

[miss fortune]

Well it was never I that screwed up, so to say. What happened is that both of my parents went to jail right when I got outta high school, and I went from being middle class to homeless over night. All of my college funds were spent on my parents lawyer's fees as well. So it's basically like I had to do everything myself and am coming up in society, all by myself. This has been a very shitty situation.

And I went through plenty of situations that I did not cause as well... don't even THINK that you can tell me that my only difficulties were caused by my own immoderations.

I still maintain that you have a choice in whether you close the wagon circle or invite in a few more stragglers to protect... as another example my grandfather was an orphaned street kid by the age of 8 and was known for always helping someone in need. No excuses.

 

[The Great One]

And I went through plenty of situations that I did not cause as well... don't even THINK that you can tell me that my only difficulties were caused by my own immoderations.

I still maintain that you have a choice in whether you close the wagon circle or invite in a few more stragglers to protect... as another example my grandfather was an orphaned street kid by the age of 8 and was known for always helping someone in need. No excuses.

What's your point here?

 

[miss fortune]

What's your point here?

I'm refuting your theory

 

[The Great One]

I'm refuting your theory

Well I could care less what you say. In 2007, both of my parents abandoned me completely and all of my college money was spent on lawyer's fees. Not only that but my mother ran with drug dealers at this point, when my father was in jail and I did live with her for a short bit. However, during this time, drug dealers would constantly be around my house, and would threaten my life because my mother would never pay her debt that she owed back to the drug dealers. This gave me PTSD, and it has been very difficult to work because of this. Just the slightest thing: someone yelling at me, someone threatening me, or someone even raising their voice to me, would set me off and I would get fired.

The only way that I have been able to survive is to be a full-time student and to live off government grant, loan, and scholarship money. In this time, I have earned an A.A. degree and am now working on my B.S. degree in Information Science. Also, in this time I have spent probably a couple grand on counselors to help me to solve this problem and I even hired an hypnotist that was able to teach me various relaxation techniques.

How ignorant can you really be to believe that the family circumstances that you were raised in, and the amount of money that your parents make have no real bearing upon how much money you will make in the future and how successful you will be? I can literally show you studies that have been conducted that show the correlation between how much money that a person's family makes and their likelyhood of getting an an advanced college degree or even any degree for that matter. Oh and yes, it appears as though you do need a college degree to actually get more than a minimum wage job in this Meritocracy of a nation that we have here. College degrees= money in our society.

 

[Kasper]

Do not underestimate the amount of anger a 9 can have, nor the ability to adapt to any situation with ease. It is a mistake to think 9s are peace loving hippy types, we prefer peace to disruption, we can easily let others get away with more than we should but we are still an anger type just like 1 and 8.

It takes as astronomical amount for me to show others my anger, as in not frustration or annoyance but the actual anger, if I did though, you wouldn't like it, I would tear things apart. My wing plays a role in my experience of anger, but my motivations and ways of coping are always 9 based even if I were to appear like an 8 with hulk rage.