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  1. #21
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Ya, fuck em all. Fuck em to hell and back, then fuck em again. Laugh in their faces when they complain about it! PLEASE NO MAN.

    That's right.
    Yeah, that's probably good advice

  2. #22
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Ya, fuck em all. Fuck em to hell and back, then fuck em again. Laugh in their faces when they complain about it! PLEASE NO MAN.

    That's right.
    Yeah, that's probably good advice

  3. #23
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    If a person adopts their confrontation style to another person's in order to get along, what is this reminiscent with? So for example, if I am quarreling with an 8, then I will be much more assertive when dealing with them. Also, if I am dealing with a 9, then I won't approach the person with much force, and will be very gentle. If I am dealing with a 1, I will just act normal. Is this because of my 9 fix, or this Fe, or what?
    Great One.

    I recently figured out I am actually an ENTP and that I basically dont have a 3 wing at all. Consequently, hold what I said prior as invalid. I suppose that now my explanation for this behavior is Fe, though in your case, I am sure your 3 fix increases your ability to do this.

    On another subject, how do you know you are not 8 fixed_ (there should be a question mark there, but my keyboard is wonky).

  4. #24
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Great One.

    I recently figured out I am actually an ENTP and that I basically dont have a 3 wing at all. Consequently, hold what I said prior as invalid. I suppose that now my explanation for this behavior is Fe, though in your case, I am sure your 3 fix increases your ability to do this.

    On another subject, how do you know you are not 8 fixed_ (there should be a question mark there, but my keyboard is wonky).
    Umm...I'm not really that abrasive. I also don't enjoy confrontation that much. I suppose I could be 8 fixed, but I think I'm 9 fixed with a strong 8 wing. Why do you think I'm 8 fixed?

  5. #25
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I wonder if it's a 3 fix + Fe thing. I'm noticing that Fi users tend to be unwavering and change for no one. This is probably because Fi always wants to be true to it's self and to it's values.
    Ugh, not this oversimplification of Fi again.

    I disagree, and we've had proof of this on this very board. There have been several threads where the majority of the participants were xxFPs, and were comfortable with a more "Fi style" of communication (a little more raw & personal). Then some Fe users come in & try to force their preferred style on us, because this manner is supposedly the "objectively right way" (not said, but implied). In reality, the majority preferred a different style & were comfortable in how the conversation was going. This is an example of Fe types NOT adapting but pushing others to adapt to a style they see as objective, which in this case, is actually their personal preference. Not being aware of when your personal preferences are just that & not universal standards is a Fe problem. Fe, in these cases, can strike me as some colonial nation coming in under the guise of "civilizing" a native people & end up destroying a rich culture & raping their land of natural resources.

    I would say this is not type-related over all, but may have some slight Ne+Fi connection if you believe that Dario Nardi experiment which suggested ENFPs "mirror" the most & are also the most empathic thinkers. It looked to me like Feeling types in general "mirrored" regardless of Fi/Fe preference. I'd have to reference it again to be sure.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Umm...I'm not really that abrasive. I also don't enjoy confrontation that much. I suppose I could be 8 fixed, but I think I'm 9 fixed with a strong 8 wing. Why do you think I'm 8 fixed?
    I don't necessarily think you are. That's your own quest to go on. However, I ruled out being influenced by type 8 for a long time, for reasons similar to what you mention--I dislike confrontation (but I'm just willing to do so if pushed). I don't see myself as "abrasive"--just kind of quiet and polite. Part of it's that I'm unaware of my effect on others, but most of it's just that I'm...well, quiet and polite. I know another ENTP 8 who says the same thing--the "soft touch".

    If you'd like some observations on why I think it's possible for you, well first, I've noticed your energy meets mine. If I write something, you write back (which delights me, incidentally). I'm realizing that a lot of people don't do this--actually, they seem to find it annoying. When someone keeps pinging me back, I often discover they're 8-fixed. @Lady X is a good example of this. I haven't really observed 9-fixers doing this; sometimes 1-fixers will, but with considerably less relish.

    Second, you're a debator, not just in an ENTP way--which incidentally, is supposed to be the 638 archetype. You may not like confrontation, but your mind confronts others nonetheless. You ask the questions and say the things. This is hardly indicative, but--I remember what you said to DJ: "this is war, and a war I intend to win". As one chronically surrounded by 9s and 9-fixers, I have a difficult time imagining a single one of them phrasing their ideas in such a manner.

    Third, what you said in your other thread--the mindset you have adopted under stress. We've got a similar story, and we have coped in similar ways. 9s can be tough and bitter at times, as many have pointed out. But, I'm wondering how much a 639 would fixate on these ideas, even if the 9 had a strong 8 wing? I'd say it's possible, but I'd question why?

    Your last fix can sometimes be tricky to figure out. Mine came as a total surprise, but makes sense now that I know what it is.

    Anyway, as I said, it's your journey, but I hope that's some food for thought.

  7. #27
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Ugh, not this oversimplification of Fi again.

    I disagree, and we've had proof of this on this very board. There have been several threads where the majority of the participants were xxFPs, and were comfortable with a more "Fi style" of communication (a little more raw & personal). Then some Fe users come in & try to force their preferred style on us, because this manner is supposedly the "objectively right way" (not said, but implied). In reality, the majority preferred a different style & were comfortable in how the conversation was going. This is an example of Fe types NOT adapting but pushing others to adapt to a style they see as objective, which in this case, is actually their personal preference. Not being aware of when your personal preferences are just that & not universal standards is a Fe problem. Fe, in these cases, can strike me as some colonial nation coming in under the guise of "civilizing" a native people & end up destroying a rich culture & raping their land of natural resources.

    I would say this is not type-related over all, but may have some slight Ne+Fi connection if you believe that Dario Nardi experiment which suggested ENFPs "mirror" the most & are also the most empathic thinkers. It looked to me like Feeling types in general "mirrored" regardless of Fi/Fe preference. I'd have to reference it again to be sure.
    You've got it all wrong. I'm not saying that Fi users are wrong with their so called, "inability" to adapt to others. In fact, I respect them for this. I find that many Fe users come off as fake and not genuine for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I don't necessarily think you are. That's your own quest to go on. However, I ruled out being influenced by type 8 for a long time, for reasons similar to what you mention--I dislike confrontation (but I'm just willing to do so if pushed). I don't see myself as "abrasive"--just kind of quiet and polite. Part of it's that I'm unaware of my effect on others, but most of it's just that I'm...well, quiet and polite. I know another ENTP 8 who says the same thing--the "soft touch".

    If you'd like some observations on why I think it's possible for you, well first, I've noticed your energy meets mine. If I write something, you write back (which delights me, incidentally). I'm realizing that a lot of people don't do this--actually, they seem to find it annoying. When someone keeps pinging me back, I often discover they're 8-fixed. @Lady X is a good example of this. I haven't really observed 9-fixers doing this; sometimes 1-fixers will, but with considerably less relish.

    Second, you're a debator, not just in an ENTP way--which incidentally, is supposed to be the 638 archetype. You may not like confrontation, but your mind confronts others nonetheless. You ask the questions and say the things. This is hardly indicative, but--I remember what you said to DJ: "this is war, and a war I intend to win". As one chronically surrounded by 9s and 9-fixers, I have a difficult time imagining a single one of them phrasing their ideas in such a manner.

    Third, what you said in your other thread--the mindset you have adopted under stress. We've got a similar story, and we have coped in similar ways. 9s can be tough and bitter at times, as many have pointed out. But, I'm wondering how much a 639 would fixate on these ideas, even if the 9 had a strong 8 wing? I'd say it's possible, but I'd question why?

    Your last fix can sometimes be tricky to figure out. Mine came as a total surprise, but makes sense now that I know what it is.

    Anyway, as I said, it's your journey, but I hope that's some food for thought.
    1) Wait are you saying that Lady X is 8 fixed? No, I'm not seeing that.

    2) You do have a point when you say that 9 fixers don't tend to write back. I've noticed this as well. I HATE to lose anything and am VERY competitive. In fact, I would consider myself a punk ass bitch if I didn't write anything back.

    3) You are right: when I am pushed, I do push back. One of the reasons why I avoid confrontation is because I have SO MUCH anger and SO MUCH rage pent up inside of me, that when someone pisses me off, I just want to explode on them automatically. I used to take anti-anxiety pills and I used to smoke weed just to calm me the fuck down. In my mind, I am always anxious and always angry. The problem is that I like to avoid confrontation because when I explode on people, I often times lose control and this is a problem. I scream at the top of my lungs at people and I often times want to fist fight people. This often times gets the cops called on me, or it gets me fired from jobs or thrown out of places. I have a hard time with confrontation because it seems like I have a hot and cold approach to confrontation: either I face someone head on and shut them down fully and entirely, or I just avoid confrontation in order to keep the peace. It's very hard for me to have a middle ground and this is my problem.

    I'm not like a gut center type when it comes to confrontation though: I tend to analyze confrontation and I don't just ACT on it as a gut impulse. I especially like to weigh pros and cons. For instance, I recently posted a thread on not hitting on women at bars and clubs because I am afraid of getting beaten up. The truth is that I am not afraid of the confrontation itself but instead am afraid of experiencing physical pain. After all, I have this stupid gagging problem that keeps me from exercise. I feel like if I was able to exercise, then I would be much larger and much faster in a fight, which would minimize my chances of getting hurt in fight. So in case someone tried to fight me at a bar, I would first try to disarm the confrontation because I don't want to go to jail. However, if they persisted and I could prove in a court of law that I was defending myself, I would gladly beat the shit out of the other person. The funny thing is that I would enjoy it too. I really enjoy fist fighting after all, and it really makes me feel alive when I can actually win one. In my mind it's almost like I overpowered the other person with brute force and this always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

    I will say one thing in the case for a 9 fix though and that is that I often avoid confrontation for the sake of keeping friends. Often times I find that getting into a strong confrontation with friends loses friends for me, so I try to avoid this in order to keep that friend. However, when I do have a friend that is passive aggressive, won't tell me what's wrong in order to avoid confrontation, and won't argue with me then that often times pisses me off. I will say that if I have a friend that is an 9 fixer vs. one that is an 8 fixer, I will get along with the 8 fixer better though.

    4) Also what mindset did you adopt under stress? I am curious? I don't know, maybe I am an 8 fixer. Who knows?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    1) Wait are you saying that Lady X is 8 fixed? No, I'm not seeing that.
    Well we talked about it on another thread, and she does identify with the 728 archetype. Her friends IRL seemed to think there was an 8-fix to her. I'll let you guys take that up with each other!

    2) You do have a point when you say that 9 fixers don't tend to write back. I've noticed this as well. I HATE to lose anything and am VERY competitive. In fact, I would consider myself a punk ass bitch if I didn't write anything back.
    Me too.

    3) You are right: when I am pushed, I do push back. One of the reasons why I avoid confrontation is because I have SO MUCH anger and SO MUCH rage pent up inside of me, that when someone pisses me off, I just want to explode on them automatically. I used to take anti-anxiety pills and I used to smoke weed just to calm me the fuck down. In my mind, I am always anxious and always angry. The problem is that I like to avoid confrontation because when I explode on people, I often times lose control and this is a problem. I scream at the top of my lungs at people and I often times want to fist fight people. This often times gets the cops called on me, or it gets me fired from jobs or thrown out of places. I have a hard time with confrontation because it seems like I have a hot and cold approach to confrontation: either I face someone head on and shut them down fully and entirely, or I just avoid confrontation in order to keep the peace. It's very hard for me to have a middle ground and this is my problem.

    I'm not like a gut center type when it comes to confrontation though: I tend to analyze confrontation and I don't just ACT on it as a gut impulse. I especially like to weigh pros and cons. For instance, I recently posted a thread on not hitting on women at bars and clubs because I am afraid of getting beaten up. The truth is that I am not afraid of the confrontation itself but instead am afraid of experiencing physical pain. After all, I have this stupid gagging problem that keeps me from exercise. I feel like if I was able to exercise, then I would be much larger and much faster in a fight, which would minimize my chances of getting hurt in fight. So in case someone tried to fight me at a bar, I would first try to disarm the confrontation because I don't want to go to jail. However, if they persisted and I could prove in a court of law that I was defending myself, I would gladly beat the shit out of the other person. The funny thing is that I would enjoy it too. I really enjoy fist fighting after all, and it really makes me feel alive when I can actually win one. In my mind it's almost like I overpowered the other person with brute force and this always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
    It sounds very possible. I can identify with what you're saying in much of this, actually. Other people are unknown quantities, and I a) don't want to get hurt, and b) know that I could actually wind up hurting someone else. I can tell you that the first thing about type 8 is self-interest. I've been in 1 fist fight precisely in my 30 years, and I simply didn't lash out like a maniac--I calculatingly threw my punches for maximum effect with minimum blood. With gut types, there's body-based reasoning, not irrational uncontrollable impulses.

    Of course, 6s can be plenty feisty, too. There's always that.

    I will say one thing in the case for a 9 fix though and that is that I often avoid confrontation for the sake of keeping friends. Often times I find that getting into a strong confrontation with friends loses friends for me, so I try to avoid this in order to keep that friend. However, when I do have a friend that is passive aggressive, won't tell me what's wrong in order to avoid confrontation, and won't argue with me then that often times pisses me off. I will say that if I have a friend that is an 9 fixer vs. one that is an 8 fixer, I will get along with the 8 fixer better though.
    Do you feel the need to "dig" to get the truth out of her? That would be 8ish rather than 9ish, which I think is more receptive to the other's state.

    4) Also what mindset did you adopt under stress? I am curious? I don't know, maybe I am an 8 fixer. Who knows?
    Well I wrote about it on your other thread about changing gut types--I've just become a cynical bitch who uses rage-filled aggression at the slightest hint of an offense because I'm just trying to survive and all and people can just get out my fucking way. Everyone else can just deal with it, I do not care. Even if they fire me, fuck it. And seeing exploitation everywhere, and withdrawing from everything cause I hate and fear it. Stuff like that.

    Anyway. I'll be back tomorrow.

  9. #29
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    You've got it all wrong. I'm not saying that Fi users are wrong with their so called, "inability" to adapt to others. In fact, I respect them for this. I find that many Fe users come off as fake and not genuine for example.
    Because it's inaccurate that Fi users don't have an ability to adapt. You really believe an IxFP e9 doesn't adapt? Seriously?
    My point illustrated how Fe types don't necessarily adapt in reality - instead they can push others to adapt to some imaginary objective preference "everyone" shares.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  10. #30
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    If a person adopts their confrontation style to another person's in order to get along, what is this reminiscent with? So for example, if I am quarreling with an 8, then I will be much more assertive when dealing with them. Also, if I am dealing with a 9, then I won't approach the person with much force, and will be very gentle. If I am dealing with a 1, I will just act normal. Is this because of my 9 fix, or this Fe, or what?
    I don't do this.

    I have lower Fe than Fi.

    It's cause of your Fe, and maybe could be a side effect of E6.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I wonder if it's a 3 fix + Fe thing. I'm noticing that Fi users tend to be unwavering and change for no one. This is probably because Fi always wants to be true to it's self and to it's values.
    I tend to see this irl.

    With my ISFJ friend. If I'm mad at him, he acts mad. If I'm happy around him, he is happy. That is just pure Fe.

    Fe is usually mirroring in this way.

    Fi will understand the other persons values and style, but normally wont be AS influenced.

    Neither is better than the other though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Actually, I've never had this experience. I work as a teacher, so that may be a mitigating factor. What happens with me is closer to me depersonalizing the crowd and droning away (and, come to think of it, this may stem from the dilemma you mentioned) but I've never noticed specifically what you say.
    so ^ prolly

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Do you also find that you don't like to address large groups because of this? Since I tend to change with each person to accommodate their needs, it is hard to address an entire group because I don't know how to act. Is this also a problem for you?
    could be sx^

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Well I'm good at addressing entire groups, it's just that it annoys me sometimes because you have to be so careful what you say. After all, in our politically correct world, damn near anything will offend people now.
    But from the sounds of this ^, it's E6 and Fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    If I write something, you write back (which delights me, incidentally). I'm realizing that a lot of people don't do this--actually, they seem to find it annoying. When someone keeps pinging me back, I often discover they're 8-fixed. Lady X is a good example of this. I haven't really observed 9-fixers doing this; sometimes 1-fixers will, but with considerably less relish.
    8's want feedback just like 6's, just for different reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post

    2) In fact, I would consider myself a punk ass bitch if I didn't write anything back.
    ^ May be a reason for arguing you have an 8 fix.

    3) You are right: when I am pushed, I do push back. One of the reasons why I avoid confrontation is because I have SO MUCH anger and SO MUCH rage pent up inside of me, that when someone pisses me off, I just want to explode on them automatically. I used to take anti-anxiety pills and I used to smoke weed just to calm me the fuck down. In my mind, I am always anxious and always angry. The problem is that I like to avoid confrontation because when I explode on people, I often times lose control and this is a problem. I scream at the top of my lungs at people and I often times want to fist fight people. This often times gets the cops called on me, or it gets me fired from jobs or thrown out of places. I have a hard time with confrontation because it seems like I have a hot and cold approach to confrontation: either I face someone head on and shut them down fully and entirely, or I just avoid confrontation in order to keep the peace. It's very hard for me to have a middle ground and this is my problem.

    I'm not like a gut center type when it comes to confrontation though: I tend to analyze confrontation and I don't just ACT on it as a gut impulse. I especially like to weigh pros and cons. For instance, I recently posted a thread on not hitting on women at bars and clubs because I am afraid of getting beaten up. The truth is that I am not afraid of the confrontation itself but instead am afraid of experiencing physical pain. After all, I have this stupid gagging problem that keeps me from exercise. I feel like if I was able to exercise, then I would be much larger and much faster in a fight, which would minimize my chances of getting hurt in fight. So in case someone tried to fight me at a bar, I would first try to disarm the confrontation because I don't want to go to jail. However, if they persisted and I could prove in a court of law that I was defending myself, I would gladly beat the shit out of the other person. The funny thing is that I would enjoy it too. I really enjoy fist fighting after all, and it really makes me feel alive when I can actually win one. In my mind it's almost like I overpowered the other person with brute force and this always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
    I normally choose to walk away and ignore over choosing flip my shit on someone. Mostly for the same reasons. I fight to kill. When I let my anger loose, I will win. Or die trying. Literally in some cases. I'm very hot/cold too, as you have stated above.

    I will say one thing in the case for a 9 fix though and that is that I often avoid confrontation for the sake of keeping friends. Often times I find that getting into a strong confrontation with friends loses friends for me, so I try to avoid this in order to keep that friend.
    Fe again here.
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