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  1. #1
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Default 7 + 4 {relationally}

    I suppose this is a bit inspired by the type vs. type threads to discuss differences, but I'm interested in discussing relational combinations (platonic and/or romantic). The interaction between 4 and 7 has quite intrigued me of late in several incidences so I'd love to hear other stories or relational experiences with this combo (good or bad).

    You can find Enneagram Institute's take on the general 4 + 7 relationship here.

    As a 4, my experience with 7 female friends has been almost non-existent (even though I'm fond of a couple) because they frankly don't have time to know others or be known. There is one in particular who I volunteer alongside who is quite literally a social butterfly, I believe she's actually So-first. When she enters a room, she flits around it hugging and greeting people warmly but briefly. One week when she turned to hug me and say "how are you!" (as a statement, not an actual question), I simply said, "you know, I don't know you." I think it confused her at first, but the next week she understood and we actually made plans to hang out for the first time. I'm so glad we did because one-on-one or in a small group, she is so much more intentional and open. It has been a struggle to spend time with her since as she travels a lot for work and packs her schedule to the brim, so I've sort of just surrendered. Sad that.

    My experience with male 7's has happily surprised me, though I'm totally aware that they probably have tenancies similar to my above female friend. There's an Sx-first 7w8 (I believe) that I've been getting to know who I've found so much common ground with so far. The main thing I respect about him is his independence, because it matches my own (if in a slightly different way). He does what he wants, says what he thinks and seems to never consider what others might think of it. A measure of this: no one ever approaches me in social settings because I have a tendency to close myself off, either alone or with whomever I'm talking to. This guy does! It's like he doesn't see the glass walls everyone else senses around me. It's not like he rudely shatters them either, he just walks over, very purposefully sits or stands by me and enters the conversation. There's nothing I appreciate more than someone who can approach me that way, it's like he shouldered the risk in the situation so I wouldn't have to. We share a love of adventure and the outdoors, and he actually does have his own sense of style. I've also noted an appreciation for beauty in him that I wouldn't have immediately guessed, though I suppose in a Sx-first 7 the point would be to experience and become one with the beauty-- and then move on. That's the part that I've been trying to keep at the forefront of my mind, I've been a bit more guarded that I normally am because I don't see the point in being vulnerable if he might just get distracted and move on. One other interesting thing, I've noticed we kind of connect at 5 a little-- his integration to it, and my heavy wing. I've realized right away not to analyze him though (this means no Enneagram talk, he knows what it is but doesn't want to be "boxed in"), which I'm fine with.

    Well that's my two cents, anyone else care to share what the 4 + 7 relationship looks like?
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  2. #2
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Wow, really? No 7's or 4's to comment on the relational experience between the two?

    @LadyX and @nicolita, you are the only 7's I'm acquainted with to call on, fellow 4's might you lend your experiences as well? @brainheart @OrangeAppled @Sanjuro @Peguy @ayoitsStepho
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

  3. #3
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i totally will. i saw the thread earlier today but i'm currently irritated with the type 4 bf and won't do a good job atm.

    edit: you can ask specific type 7 sx type relationship questions tho and i'll give you my take.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  4. #4
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    my best friend is a 7w6, ENFP sx/so most likely. one of her main roles in my life is kinda as my social director. i've met a lot of people through her, and for some reason feel more comfortable in social situations when she's around. it was her idea to move to california, she asked if i was interested in moving out here with her and i pretty much immediately said yes and we planned everything and made it happen. she's not as flaky as some 7s but i would say i'm a lot more interested in depth than her. it's harder to keep her attention than mine.

    a lot of our differences are just introvert/extrovert things though... we have a lot in common so we don't have many conflicts. i think we might have the same tritype too which could have a lot to do with it.

  5. #5
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Not ruling anything out but I don't think I could take on a 4 generally. There's this aura of seriousness to them that turns me off. Like (no offense intended but I gotta be honest with you) if I were that E7 girl you talked about I would have gotten pissed at you for killing my mood initially. I'd be like "wow you're really not gonna let me have my fun?" I also need someone more calmer and rational than I am and while 4 is more quiet and withdrawn they also have a high level of emotional energy that I couldn't deal with. They're also, naturally, very into themselves and I get that but they tend to throw pity parties for themselves and I usually perceive it as melodrama. I get easily frustrated with people who wallow in their melancholy and feel sorry for themselves and I tend to just escalate those feelings by making them feel worse about themselves. I have a habit of just taking digs at people who are annoying me just so they shut up and get out of my way. I guess it's sort of my way of being frustrated with that aura of negative emotion and trying to do away with it.

    Again none of that was intended to be mean I just tried to be as honest as possible. You can ask me any questions too. If I had to say I had an "ideal" e-type it'd probably be 9w8.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  6. #6
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    I don't have much romantic experience with 4s, but my impression from over has been
    4w3: hit and miss. the more mature ones have the productivity and can-do attitude of 3 coupled with the authenticity and personal flair of 4, but the less healthy ones struck me as histrionic drama queens.
    4w5: cold and seething, almost hostile. 4w3 is saucier and more direct, but 4w5 is more biting, in a way similar to 5w6/6w5. for the most part, I don't feel comfortable around them and try to avoid them (which seems to be what they want me to do anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    my best friend is a 7w6, ENFP sx/so most likely. one of her main roles in my life is kinda as my social director. i've met a lot of people through her, and for some reason feel more comfortable in social situations when she's around. it was her idea to move to california, she asked if i was interested in moving out here with her and i pretty much immediately said yes and we planned everything and made it happen. she's not as flaky as some 7s but i would say i'm a lot more interested in depth than her. it's harder to keep her attention than mine.
    a lot of our differences are just introvert/extrovert things though... we have a lot in common so we don't have many conflicts. i think we might have the same tritype too which could have a lot to do with it.
    the difference between Social second and Social blindspot is also apparent here.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    I don't claim to have in-depth experience with 7s, actually, but I tend to get along with the ones I have known. We sort of draw each others' loopiness out.

    When I was a kid, my best friend was a 7w6 (prolly ESTP), and we were both sort of instigators in our own way. We always managed to get into ridiculous amounts of trouble using very normal, day-to-day components. Like stuff you wouldn't imagine would wind up getting us into trouble with the entire neighborhood (the time we tried to feed the abused neighbors' dog and wound up demolishing the kitchen and setting the two households off against each other, for instance).

    Blows never really came to blows over 4-7 stuff, come to think of it. Actually, it was more about my sx-first instinct getting peevish if she had--gasp--other friends, which she did because she was not sx-first. That, and I was a socially awkward dork who punched her in the eye, and she left without comment as soon as she had less lame friends.

    I do not jest.

    I've had a friend who is...well, either a 7 or a 2 (I've known her over a decade and I still don't know her core type, but assuming she's a 7w6). She's also an ENFP, meaning our Ne-enriched loopiness just harmonizes. I'm by far the more realistic one, which tends to be where we come to blows, again. I try to tell her that her idea is bad and going to get us all killed, and I kind of poke holes in her balloons of syrupy goodness. She appreciates my wisdom but finds me irascible and negative, and too inclined to be "in a shell". However, she's conflict-averse, so we've never really fought about stuff.

    My grandmother was also a 7, but I never had the chance to meet her till she was dying. I felt it was so sad that she avoided her problems enough that they killed her (she kept trying to "think" her pancreatic cancer away). She always supported me from afar, and was apparently a positive influence on everyone she met. I wish she could have been a bigger presence in my life, actually.

    Other than that, I've had a 7 boss, who I actually liked a lot. I really admired his way of staying in charge of a classroom while maintaining equality and inclusion. This is something I cannot do. I was a bit intense and--apparently--combative for his tastes though, and he thought I was too sensitive to criticism. I felt that he was largely a responsible, protective boss, but overly willing to support the company when it turned against me. We weren't close, though.

    Something I did notice about my boss was that he'd try to talk up how "awesome" everything was, and I'd tell him to cut the bullshit. That was kind of a funny dynamic, because he basically had to tell me I was right.

    I haven't had any romantic relationships with 7s, which, unfortunately would be where my "real" 4 stuff starts to show. I imagine a 4-7 relationship could either be totally brilliant with each party stabilizing the other's neuroses and pulling the other through, or totally shit, where each party verbally abuses and degrades the other for being the way they are. Each would just sort of think the other was a pathetic baby who can't handle life. That sort of thing.

    I am a 4w5. Hope that helps!!

  8. #8
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Let's be honest, right now I'm having trouble not punching a few 7's in the face who run around in my life. I have an unhealthy relationship with a few at the moment so it's a battle to not lash out and hurt them the way they have hurt me. I don't think I would do a good job of being impersonal about it right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  9. #9
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    I've dated a 4w5 and I have a few friends who are Fours, so I might have some notes worth sharing.


    - The romantic relationship was fine at first, but rapidly became strained.
    ! My 4w5 grew comfortable with me quickly (after about two months). He seemed very happy in this comfort as he described it, but I felt anxious the second he expressed these feelings. To me, "comfort" can become a slippery slope that leads to boredom, stagnancy, and taking each other for granted. I already sensed this was becoming the case; that initial, best-foot-forward stage was wearing off in a hurry.

    ! He was a romantic sort of guy, very serious. While I am happily monogamous in relationships, I don't like heaviness or pressure, preferring instead to simply enjoy the ride. We finally came to...not resent each other for these differences, but they did evolve into an obvious source of incompatibility. (He would eventually come to feel as though my affections toward him were shallow and fleeting compared to his own for me.)

    ! He was quite sensitive and reactive. I would try to be as well-meaning as I could with him, but if I ever failed to give something the proper amount of reverence, hard feelings would result. For example, he would regularly text me outpourings of affectionate things...while I was working (and not in an easy position to reply immediately or thoroughly). It was sweet, but increasingly predictable and seemingly needy; when my replies were brief, it would bother him - the poor guy felt rejected.

    ! I was often frustrated with his melancholic moods and the ways in which he dealt with them - by wallowing in those emotions, marinading like some morose, angry chicken in its teriyaki sauce of hate and despair. He was often frustrated with my natural highs and the ways in which I dealt with those - by laughing off my problems, running and running and running like a naked, coked-up co-ed who thinks every day is spring break. Well. Not that bad, but you know.

    ! I developed Wandering Eye Syndrome. I didn't act on it, choosing instead to bring the problem to my Four's attention. As I knew they would be, his feelings were hurt - very, very badly. Nobody could be blamed for the unfortunate situation, but deep down, I know that it was likely a high risk from the very beginning, with our personalities being what they are.

    ! When we did part ways, I healed and moved on easily. Within a week, perhaps, I was pretty much back at one hundred percent. The fallout had a much longer half-life in the Four.


    - Having said all of that, I do have friendships with Fours that work.
    ! One of my female friends from college is a Four, and she's a ton of fun to hang out with. We fuel each other creatively, planning adventures and taking photographs and talking about the aesthetics of everything around us. She appreciates beauty, and together we can do silly things that many of my other friends might roll their eyes at. Like young girls playing dress-up, we invent bizarre, peacock-esque outfits, which we then wear for portrait sessions. When these sessions yield decent pictures, we talk technique and then go do it again.

    ! Fours can also be fantastic conversationalists. I love discussing abstractions with my friend, A., who is a Four musician. He's mellow but deep, and his thoughts have no bounds. We've killed hours talking about the hows and whys of everything, and I find his circle of artistic friends to be generally refreshing. They're different, they're happy to be different, and their honesty is all kinds of inspiring when we're all in a good mood.

    ! When Fours and I are stimulated by the same interests, we can stay up all night exploring them. It seems that we're both invested in establishing some kind of freedom, declaring our individuality, and examining the world from multiple perspectives. As long as we accept our differences, I don't have much difficulty maintaining friendships with Fours.


    I think most of my hesitation with Fours comes from the melancholia and reactive temperament. I have an intense fear/dislike of negative mood. If someone walks into a room and they're unhappy, I feel it immediately, almost as if it were my own emotion. I don't want to feel that. At all. I become anxious, and the positive/negative war begins.

    It may be important to mention that I seem to be a somewhat atypical Seven with regard to the whole social butterfly thing. I'm more of a lone wolf who takes people or leaves them based upon our dynamic and the evening's potential. I'm sexual-dominant, social-last.
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  10. #10
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It's interesting...I had no idea that 7s were that 'hostile' towards negative vibes. It is a good thing you guys are aware of that fear within yourselves though.

    I likely dated an 7w8 sx-so at some point. A fun, whirlwind of excitement. Adventure everywhere (ESTP so yeah...). All I had to do was follow along - and try to keep up. I loved him with all my heart, but realise now that we were really incompatible. We mostly had a connection through the sx-dom part of it. And yes..he hated sullen moods and sought to escape them in any way possible. I spent many a night soothing him after he had a particularly gruelling day at work. He worked like a beast and partied like an animal though - 3 shifts after one another, go dancing, only to pass out, sleep 4 hours and go again. Eventually he got into the habit of falling asleep when he was with me as he was...I think he was afraid to go home to an empty house and be alone, and well, I wasn't new and exciting but familiar and safe now. We dated for over a year but his eye started wandering quite a bit earlier, I was told. He stuck with me as long as he did because of my family - he had none of his own safe for a father who was a captain and out on sea 3 out of 4 weeks. My family and I became his anchor, for as long as he could stand to be stuck in that routine. Then he moved on.
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