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  1. #71
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octavarium View Post
    Interesting points. I totally agree with you and @Hard that 1s aren't always people who work really hard all the time, and some 1s are more reformers than perfectionists, and I'll get back to that. But that description honestly seemed more 4 than 1 to me. "broken beyond repair" and "we stand alone to wallow in our flaws" seem especially 4-ish. Both 1s and 4s are very aware of their flaws, have ideals they want to live up to and feel frustrated with themselves for not meeting them. I think one of the biggest differences is that 1s want to fix their flaws whereas 4s are more ambivalent about them, sometimes feeling that they are broken and defective and wanting to take on what they see as the positive qualities of others, but also seeing their flaws/differences as a source of pride, and something that makes them who they are, so that fixing them would take away a vital part of their identity.

    On the other hand, I can see what you mean in that a 1 might feel that if they're struggling with, E.G. studying, that reflects badly on their intellectual ability and they shouldn't find it so difficult, but I'd assume most 1s would see that as something that needs to be improved. The Enneagram is complicated; there's the line of dis/integration between 1 and 4, so there are people who are one of those types who are strongly influenced by the other. There are Sp 4s, who can look like 1s, and Sx 1s have more of an orientation towards getting what they want. There's also the 9 wing's focus on being rather than doing, so maybe for some people that translates into being perfect rather than doing things to make themselves perfect. So I'm not necessarily saying you're mistyped as there could be an explanation in all that complication, but I don't understand how you can be a 1 who doesn't believe you can improve upon whatever you perceive as your flaws. Again, I'm not saying 1s are constantly working towards self-improvement, because I think there are actually things about being a 1 that can get in the way of that goal, but I'll get into that in another post later. Also, with the 4 stress point, I do think 1s can wallow in their flaws sometimes, although not as much as actual 4s. But "broken beyond repair" sounds like a really hopeless place for a 1.
    Interesting about type 4 (I've actually typed as it before), I am inclined to believe that the reason I do not constantly work toward self-improvement might be due to the fact that what usually puts me down is absolute impossibility (such as the failure of an action that cannot be repeated). Though, in a 4-ish kind of way, I see being average as being a failure, trapped within the herds of the masses that lessen the probability of being remembered after I am gone.

    Part of the confusion might be the disintegration/integration point surrounding Type 1 and Type 4, and I have recently read this one particular "health-level" provided by the Enneagram Institute regarding type 4 and found it to be quite revealing and enlightening.

    Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

  2. #72
    Senior Member HBIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    stolen from PerC
    I'll start with a few

    male 2s
    often much more aggressive than they are painted in most literature. Sexual 2w3s often look like a combination of 3w2 and 8w7. the way you can tell them apart is
    1) they're much more emotional than either a 3 or an 8. they're also much more prone to drama and (in some cases) excessive bravado (think Naruto or Theon Greyjoy)
    2) they disintegrate to 8, not 9 and certainly not 5.
    3) less apathetic and sociopathic than an 8

    2s in general
    much more power seeking than they appear on the surface. behind that 9-ish facade of false humility is a confident, socially adept string puller who is an expert at winning people over to his/her side.

    3s
    they really don't care as much about what people think about them as descriptions seem to suggest. 3s want respect for their accomplishments. as far as being liked and accepted, they really don't care as much, and most would laugh at the idea of bending over backwards to win someone else's acceptance. 3w2s care a little more about this because of their 2 wing, but mostly their charm and seduction are used as tactics for personal advancement rather than their primary objective,

    Social 7s
    For the longest time it baffled me why 7s are said to mistype at 2...then I read about the Social 7. Social 7s are what most people think of when they think of 7. they're bright, bubbly, cheerful, entertaining and typically enjoy large social events. however, when compared to Self Preservation, Sexual 7s and the core neurosis of 7, Social 7s are really the anti 7 of the bunch. Naranjo refers to Social 7s as anti gluttony and Maitri gives them the theme of Sacrifice.

    head center types in general
    overall, it is not gut types, but head types who are the most aggressive triad. with the exception of 8w7, gut types spend most of their time repressing their anger in various ways. typically, they let the little things slide and just forget about it. on the other hand, head types will fly into a mental frenzy of "what am I going to do about this?". they might not beat you down with a club, but 6s and 5s are often far more socially vicious than their head center counterparts and more willing to take the time and energy to plot revenge.

    Social Instinct
    when I first read about the social instinct, it made me think of tribal gatherings, bars full of drunken sports fans and high school cliques, but I've come to realize that the Social instinct is generally the most intellectual of the instincts, possessing and almost Ni-ish means of knowing what's going on and how everything and everyone are interconnected (which I'm increasingly finding is a very useful ability that I lack completely). contrary to my previous opinions, So doms are also among the most socially critical types and can typically tell you all manner of things they'd like to see changed in their society or the world at large.
    All of this, specially the bolded part. Ennnegram descriptions need a serious makeover.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    Exactly. There is nothing original about being a hipster, goth, emo, etc. so I don't get why that's so heavily associated with 4.
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Considering how fives fear being useless, helpless and incapable, when they finally attach in relationships, they can be quite clingy and needy.
    I don't experience this, but I know other 4's who do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    Mine is an INFP, also my roommate, I think probably an so variant.

    She is constantly late, and doesn't bother to tell you when she is going to arrive an hour late to something. She also talks and giggles during the most inappropriate times during movies and gets mad if you ask her to stop. And she can be insanely loud when other people in our house are trying to sleep.

    She leaves messes everywhere.
    Like slightly gross messes, not just clutter. But essentially refuses to help my other roommates and I with the cleaning because "she doesn't care if it's clean so she shouldn't have to help."
    My mom's a 9 and she's guilty of this. Drives me insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I am not surprised by this. I can't expect any 4 would be.... Contrivance is part of being an image type.

    For the 4, it's a matter of striving to meet an idealized self, and always falling short (or feeling so). 4s also "introject", which means many things but one is that we internalize concepts and use them as symbols of our identity (we also introject others' behaviors as commentary on our own significance, hence being too sensitive & absorbed). Hence, adopting style we may associate with a quality we see our fantasy self as possessing (which we see as our true selves or our potential to become).


    That being said, I'm always surprised to find out how sensitive type 3's are. They usually come across as not giving a shit, but once you get past the veneer and they masks slip...

  3. #73
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    These are just things people have either told me, or I've noticed.

    Some things might be obvious, but I'm shocked at how true to type people can be.

    1's - When they explode, they explode.
    2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)
    3's - I think they can take some abuse, just to accomplish goals, but only for so long. They're stronger than they think.
    4's - Holy fuck. They have way more emotions than I'll ever have. Even in my dreams. It seems bottomless.
    5's - Really cynical.
    6's - Contradictions are endless. Endless!! But not.
    7's - Can use pain as a distraction from pain. And when it hits them it, it feels like the world has stopped. (Stole some of Starry's words here....but have experienced this myself. I'm constantly shocked by what 7 feels like.)
    8's - Can't take no for an answer. Really.
    9's - They like to resist fear. Like shit don't matter. It aint nothin but a G thang. Seriously (I don't know how they do it.)
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  4. #74
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)

    i like *must* do this every time i go out to eat. i partially blame it on being a server before, but it's an absolute compulsion. just wanna help em out, haha!
    7's - Can use pain as a distraction from pain. And when it hits them it, it feels like the world has stopped. (Stole some of Starry's words here....but have experienced this myself. I'm constantly shocked by what 7 feels like.)
    yep! i read starry's post too and totally related. also our ability to put a positive spin on that pain. "oh all this pain i'm in, i must really be learning some valuable life lessons."
    9's - They like to resist fear. Like shit don't matter. It aint nothin but a G thang. Seriously (I don't know how they do it.)
    the power of indifference!
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    3s
    they really don't care as much about what people think about them as descriptions seem to suggest. 3s want respect for their accomplishments. as far as being liked and accepted, they really don't care as much, and most would laugh at the idea of bending over backwards to win someone else's acceptance. 3w2s care a little more about this because of their 2 wing, but mostly their charm and seduction are used as tactics for personal advancement rather than their primary objective,
    Yeah, all of this. Why care about pleasing everyone on the planet? It's wholly impossible, anyway. Best to just do the best you can.

    .. .... all the time. .. with everything. . ... ever.

    Yeah, the neurosis manifests more as


    than as e.g. '3 sp want to be seen as having enough material wealth.' or '3 sx want to be seen as attractive.' What bullshit.

  6. #76
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    ENFJ and ENTJ 6s are surprisingly calm and controlled in appearance than other types, I used to think they were 3s or 8s.

    estp 7s are not adhd like most Ne 7s. I find they tend to be much more focussed as part of Se.

  7. #77
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    These are just things people have either told me, or I've noticed.

    Some things might be obvious, but I'm shocked at how true to type people can be.

    1's - When they explode, they explode.
    2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)
    3's - I think they can take some abuse, just to accomplish goals, but only for so long. They're stronger than they think.
    4's - Holy fuck. They have way more emotions than I'll ever have. Even in my dreams. It seems bottomless.
    5's - Really cynical.
    6's - Contradictions are endless. Endless!! But not.
    7's - Can use pain as a distraction from pain. And when it hits them it, it feels like the world has stopped. (Stole some of Starry's words here....but have experienced this myself. I'm constantly shocked by what 7 feels like.)
    8's - Can't take no for an answer. Really.
    9's - They like to resist fear. Like shit don't matter. It aint nothin but a G thang. Seriously (I don't know how they do it.)
    YES. It's legitimately a compulsion.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

    3w2 6w7 1w2
    *Gryffindor*


  8. #78
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    YES. It's legitimately a compulsion.
    I know, my friend that's a 2 said that her eye literally started twitching when she held back the urge to help her waitress one time. I found that to be so endearing. I love that about 2's.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  9. #79
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post

    2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)
    OMG, this sounds exactly like me. I always stack the plates, wipe the crumbs off the table, and move all the plates and glasses to the corner of the table. Being a server is a hard job with shit pay and there are a lot of assholes who don't given them a big enough tip.

    Edit: Today I learned that this is a good indicator for having a 2-fix, LMAO!
    Autistic INFP


  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)
    Lol.. I don't do that, I think to myself hey they can do the work for the load of money I've paid.


    3's - I think they can take some abuse, just to accomplish goals, but only for so long. They're stronger than they think.
    What kind of abuse do you mean here?


    5's - Really cynical.
    I relate...


    8's - Can't take no for an answer. Really.
    Haha goddamnit... :P Though, I can actually take "no" if it's explained.

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