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  1. #11
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    I think true originality is impossible. We can rip off styles and stories even without consciously remembering our influences. Even absent of derivation, I constantly come up with independent, out of nowhere ideas that other people have had before just because there are so many brains in the world, and thus the probability is high. So, I just do what I to do, look as I want to look, and don't worry about that.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  2. #12
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    This is discussable... 4s are known as nonconformists, the ones who put individuality above all alse. They are also self expressive and it's more than common, that a 4 will want to express their individuality on the outside. For example with untraditional ideas, alternative fashion, or alternative life style. Maybe there are other enneagram types, that can behave similar to 4s, but there's always that "I am so independent, alternative, uniqe" strike in 4s, that makes them pretty markable for others.
    On the surface, I don't really think I have a vibe that is in your face. I've tended to prefer to blend into the woodwork and have little flair. Or understated flair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    I'd say being authentic is what I strive for more, rather than being JUST 'original'. I think instinctual variants and MBTI can play a role.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Insistent edginess for it's own sake (Dali, Warhol, Oscar Wilde types) strikes me as more 3-ish.
    My thoughts exactly.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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    Likes 1AuroraAngel1 liked this post

  3. #13
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    I think true originality is impossible. We can rip off styles and stories even without consciously remembering our influences. Even absent of derivation, I constantly come up with independent, out of nowhere ideas that other people have had before just because there are so many brains in the world, and thus the probability is high. So, I just do what I to do, look as I want to look, and don't worry about that.
    I often have the same thing happen to me. I’ve always wondered if you were to raise a human in perfect isolation to the world, would that human repeat the same pattern of thinking or not?

    The thing I have noticed is that the one word descriptions of the groups (Guts, Heads, and Images) are extremely apt, when describing how they deal with fear. Guts react, Heads get stuck in their heads, and Images control their projection.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”
    Likes N/A liked this post

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I really like the description of social instinct
    Same

    Quote Originally Posted by PimpinMcBoltage View Post
    6s are generally the most raw type of the enneagram, in contrast to the 2 who often exaggerates the affects the world have on them. As everything seems to affect them, and they don't seem to mind responding to their own reactions. Everyone else blocks out what they don't like about themselves in one way, and the type 6 doesn't do so as often as other types do (they do obviously just not as much as other types do). It is where the aspect of 6's hyper vigilance comes into play really. This is only theoretical though.
    That's really interesting. I think in some ways it's true. Most of the other types tend to selectively take information in so as not to wound their ego - they're more up front about it. They construct consistent, lasting "realities" and stories. 6s do more post-processing and rapidly move from "reality" to "reality" as problems arise and are dealt with. I do feel like I have a very practical viewpoint on things - like that what is, is, and there's no sense in pretending otherwise or acting otherwise.

  5. #15
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Same



    That's really interesting. I think in some ways it's true. Most of the other types tend to selectively take information in so as not to wound their ego - they're more up front about it. They construct consistent, lasting "realities" and stories. 6s do more post-processing and rapidly move from "reality" to "reality" as problems arise and are dealt with. I do feel like I have a very practical viewpoint on things - like that what is, is, and there's no sense in pretending otherwise or acting otherwise.
    Yes. Exactly. I don't know what it is about your posts but I think so similarly to you. I just can say things the way you can.

    Also, this is one of the lost enjoyable threads I have read in quite some time.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    I'd say being authentic is what I strive for more, rather than being JUST 'original'. I think instinctual variants and MBTI can play a role.
    I couldn't agree more. It always bugs me when the need to feel unique card is emphasized as what fours are all about. I think it's why there are so many people who mistype as four or want to be four. But what I think it is is that non-fours interpret the four drive for authenticity as this need to be different. That's not it at all, it's just this need to be true to the self. I also think it's why fours are so driven to fully understand themselves, because if they don't fully understand themselves, what is the self that they are supposed to be true to?

    It's kind of like what @Misty said, you're never going to create something wholly original. But you can take bits of pieces from the people you admire and create something that is true to you. I can't think of a single four artist, writer, musician who didn't copy the style of someone they admired when starting out but eventually that style copying led to something different.

  7. #17
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PimpinMcBoltage View Post
    6s are generally the most raw type of the enneagram, in contrast to the 2 who often exaggerates the affects the world have on them. As everything seems to affect them, and they don't seem to mind responding to their own reactions. Everyone else blocks out what they don't like about themselves in one way, and the type 6 doesn't do so as often as other types do (they do obviously just not as much as other types do). It is where the aspect of 6's hyper vigilance comes into play really. This is only theoretical though.
    I don't know if I agree with this. It seems to me- at least where counterphobic 6 is concerned- that e6s block information they don't like about themselves by seeing the characteristics they don't want to own in other people instead. All people do this, but counterphobic 6s do this with an unparalleled panache. It's very unnerving to deal with an e6 who is on some self-righteous witch-hunt to call people out on things left and right; it's like they're trying to exorcise demons in other people- but the more they do it, the more they keep seeing even more demons all over the place (which will continue to be the case until they get rid of the demons in their own head). I very strongly associate this way of blocking information about oneself- paired with some compulsion to 'point it out' about others- as being e6.

    What you wrote may apply to phobic e6 though, to some extent. (eta: It seems like phobic e6 goes through something similar- but instead of 'pointing it out', they freeze like a deer in headlights and don't know what to believe? Not sure.)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  8. #18
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Yes. Exactly. I don't know what it is about your posts but I think so similarly to you. I just can say things the way you can.

    Also, this is one of the lost enjoyable threads I have read in quite some time.
    Thank you for the compliment I feel like I resonate very well with your posting too but you seem to express things with more clarity than I can.

  9. #19
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don't know if I agree with this. It seems to me- at least where counterphobic 6 is concerned- that e6s block information they don't like about themselves by seeing the characteristics they don't want to own in other people instead. All people do this, but counterphobic 6s do this with an unparalleled panache. It's very unnerving to deal with an e6 who is on some self-righteous witch-hunt to call people out on things left and right; it's like they're trying to exorcise demons in other people- but the more they do it, the more they keep seeing even more demons all over the place (which will continue to be the case until they get rid of the demons in their own head). I very strongly associate this way of blocking information about oneself- paired with some compulsion to 'point it out' about others- as being e6.

    What you wrote may apply to phobic e6 though, to some extent. (eta: It seems like phobic e6 goes through something similar- but instead of 'pointing it out', they freeze like a deer in headlights and don't know what to believe? Not sure.)
    Hmm. As a CP6 I can see this but I'm not sure you have the CP6's motivation down correctly. Definitely from a observer of CP6 behavior, which is interesting in its own right.

    Somewhere along their "crusade" it turns personal. This is where the CP6 goes off the rails. Best intentions turn awry and so forth. CP6 isn't normally going after someone because of self-righteousness. Quite the opposite. CP6's rarely feel better than anyone else. Which is why we are extremely egalitarian.

    How it can look like self-righteousness (which it can) is in us "sticking up" for what we see as a breakdown of fairness. Meaning someone is cheating the system or inversely taking advantage of others. It doesn't matter to the CP6 whether this is purposeful or incidental fallout - until the CP6 investigates further. Then, if the CP6 realizes said person is doing this purposefully - they will zero in and try to oust that person of their credibility.

    You won't be able to change their minds about said person and witch-hunting will commence and in their attempt to destroy said person, their behavior can get nasty because once we see someone "playing dirty" we do the same. Fair is fair. To outsiders, this can look hypocritical and self-righteous, not to mention completely contradictory to their normal behavior. The motivation for said behavior is in protecting someone/something sacred to the CP6. I just wanted to clarify.

    Thats not to say assumption made by observation by the CP6 is correct. If it isn't, it causes disaster for everyone including the CP6. We can get hung with our own noose. It happens. CP6's would do well to remember the big picture and not get too bogged down with seek-and-destroy type behavior.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  10. #20
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Considering how fives fear being useless, helpless and incapable, when they finally attach in relationships, they can be quite clingy and needy.

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