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  1. #1
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Default Actual 4 vs. 1 disintegrating to 4

    Compare and contrast. How do you tell apart a core 4 and a core 1 who is disintegrating to 4? Key questions? Has anyone mistyped as one when they were the other? Do share what you know. I'll be back to read.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    1s typing into 4s and 5w4s is common. I've had a 1w9s friend who typed into 9 and 6 before coming to realize that he's 1w9. The reason being that 1s are one of the most flatly and negatively stereotyped types in the enneagram. Those 1s who aren't as OCD, rigid, and "moralistic" as the profiles portray them simply cannot associate with such profiles. They think "I simply cannot be this way!" and then type themselves into 5s or 4s or 9s with more attractive descriptions.

    In contrast to 4s, 1s display more competence-based intolerance towards others: they have a perception of the way things should be or could be better, and other people aren't doing anything to improve them, or even making things worse. For 1s this perception incites an intolerant and critical attitude towards other people. 1s are close to 2s in the enneagram, and pridefulness is an issues for both to some extent. This is something that actual 4s don't have. 4s display emotional exuberance and indulgence that 1s rarely engage in, while 1s don't care as much about their image.

    Another thing that is useful in telling the two apart is health levels:
    http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/levels.html

    And Naranjo's description from Character and Neurosis:
    Type 1: http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-fo...ectionism.html
    Type 4: http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-fo...-type-4-a.html
    Last edited by sulfit; 10-24-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  3. #3
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    And Naranjo's description from Character and Neurosis:
    Type 1: http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-fo...ectionism.html
    Type 4: http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-fo...-type-4-a.html
    One thing I get from his material is that types on the lower half of the enneagram are more ego-dystonic (painfully over-aware of their pattern), while he describes 1 as ego-syntonic. I wonder if that could make it difficult, like it was for your friend, for some 1's to hit on their true type.

    I'm imagining someone reading about the moral discipline of the 1 in books and thinking they must be anything but that type because due to their extreme standards for themselves that they can only fall far short of, they feel inside like they are just barely in control. Maybe they'd choose themselves a type known for being more impulsive or more emotionally driven, unaware that their definition of "impulsive" differs wildly in scope from what the authors and healthy people in general tend to mean by that. Meanwhile everyone else around them does see a disciplined and a very self-constrained person. That person just can't see it in themselves. "I'm not critical...if anything, I'm too easy!"
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  4. #4
    Stansmith
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    1s don't internalize the rejection or mistreatment they recieve from others as a reflection upon themselves (unless they feel they've violated one of their principles). The aggressor is always in the wrong in their eyes. This isn't to say that 4s are doormats, but there's often a part of them that confirms, or loosely identifies with the negative judgments of others.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    I'm imagining someone reading about the moral discipline of the 1 in books and thinking they must be anything but that type because due to their extreme standards for themselves that they can only fall far short of, they feel inside like they are just barely in control.
    Or their MBTI type interferes. I would think that the moralistic attitude is more intrinsic to type 1 Fi-dominant types, like IxFPs. If you have an ExTJ type 1 then this person is not going to bother with morals so much, since their Fi is in inferior position. This same applies to many of the INFJ 1s whose Fe function is only auxiliary, and therefore they see morals as situational rather than absolute. Since morals don't form their inner compass unlike the Fi dominant types, INFJ 1s often type themselves as 4s or 5s.

  6. #6
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    Or their MBTI type interferes. I would think that the moralistic attitude is more intrinsic to type 1 Fi-dominant types, like IxFPs. If you have an ExTJ type 1 then this person is not going to bother with morals so much, since their Fi is in inferior position. This same applies to many of the INFJ 1s whose Fe function is only auxiliary, and therefore they see morals as situational rather than absolute. Since morals don't form their inner compass unlike the Fi dominant types, INFJ 1s often type themselves as 4s or 5s.
    Interesting. Would I be right to think that the relationship that can exist between Fi and moral thinking being at the fire could prompt a Fi type to mistype as 1?
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    Or their MBTI type interferes. I would think that the moralistic attitude is more intrinsic to type 1 Fi-dominant types, like IxFPs. If you have an ExTJ type 1 then this person is not going to bother with morals so much, since their Fi is in inferior position. This same applies to many of the INFJ 1s whose Fe function is only auxiliary, and therefore they see morals as situational rather than absolute. Since morals don't form their inner compass unlike the Fi dominant types, INFJ 1s often type themselves as 4s or 5s.
    Yeah, I think that INFJ 1s are probably the least moralistic 1s. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    1s typing into 4s and 5w4s is common. I've had a 1w9s friend who typed into 9 and 6 before coming to realize that he's 1w9. The reason being that 1s are one of the most flatly and negatively stereotyped types in the enneagram. Those 1s who aren't as OCD, rigid, and "moralistic" as the profiles portray them simply cannot associate with such profiles. They think "I simply cannot be this way!" and then type themselves into 5s or 4s or 9s with more attractive descriptions.

    In contrast to 4s, 1s display more competence-based intolerance towards others: they have a perception of the way things should be or could be better, and other people aren't doing anything to improve them, or even making things worse. For 1s this perception incites an intolerant and critical attitude towards other people. 1s are close to 2s in the enneagram, and pridefulness is an issues for both to some extent.
    This is something that actual 4s don't have. 4s display emotional exuberance and indulgence that 1s rarely engage in, while 1s don't care as much about their image.

    Another thing that is useful in telling the two apart is health levels:
    http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/levels.html

    And Naranjo's description from Character and Neurosis:
    Type 1: http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-fo...ectionism.html
    Type 4: http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-fo...-type-4-a.html
    The bolded sounds a little like me. Hmm...
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    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  9. #9
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    1s don't internalize the rejection or mistreatment they recieve from others as a reflection upon themselves (unless they feel they've violated one of their principles). The aggressor is always in the wrong in their eyes. This isn't to say that 4s are doormats, but there's often a part of them that confirms, or loosely identifies with the negative judgments of others.
    Okay, no, yes. I'm a four. I think I've integrated a lot towards 1w2 in recent years.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  10. #10
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    I want to bump up this thread...

    this is interesting to me and I never thought it was possible to mix them up.
    You are so arbitrary.

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