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Thread: Four vs Six

  1. #21
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Neither and both. Ha! Ayo is much more bubbly, and Marm is way more aggressive. I'm somewhere in the middle.
    My guess is this has more to do with stacking and wing than anything. So/sx 4w3s, in their external behaviors, often seem the furthest thing from me.

    What if one prefers to not be seen at all crying?

    Is it possible for ISFP's and/or enneagram 4's to become hardened and desensitized to overly emotional people?
    I hide to cry, if and when I do. Crying for me is incredibly rare unless I'm super depressed. I relate a lot to what Naranjo says about self pres fours actually benefiting from crying, that they need to allow themselves to cry in order to heal. My guess is that this would have to do, for you, with a five wing and the presence of the self pres instinct.

  2. #22
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    The bolded is a distinction I've found to be very true. An INFP might start a conversation with something concrete but then the intuitive leaps start coming. INFPS express themselves best with figurative language. I know I get tired and antsy when conversation stays too focused on reality, and like I really don't have much to share.
    For what it's worth, I relate way more to the INFP in this situation than the S, as someone who has Fi and Ni for sure. I'm likely not to talk much at all in a group until I've processed the content intuitively and can share my discoveries and clarifications.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    My guess is this has more to do with stacking and wing than anything. So/sx 4w3s, in their external behaviors, often seem the furthest thing from me.



    I hide to cry, if and when I do. Crying for me is incredibly rare unless I'm super depressed. I relate a lot to what Naranjo says about self pres fours actually benefiting from crying, that they need to allow themselves to cry in order to heal. My guess is that this would have to do, for you, with a five wing and the presence of the self pres instinct.
    Crying for me is more often from a feeling of defeat. And in the last few years, my defeat usually stems from financial woes and stress.

    I actually feel somewhat like Natalie Portman's character in Hesher. What I can recall of her, anywho.

    I wonder if there are any threads on Enneagram 4 type movies vs Enneagram 6 type movies.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green
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  4. #24
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Crying for me is more often from a feeling of defeat. And in the last few years, my defeat usually stems from financial woes and stress.

    I actually feel somewhat like Natalie Portman's character in Hesher. What I can recall of her, anywho.

    I wonder if there are any threads on Enneagram 4 type movies vs Enneagram 6 type movies.
    Enneagram 6 movies are your typical existential Indie film about working class 25 years old psuedo-hipsters trying to find their way in the world through love and companionship. Enneagram 4 movies are gonna be more 'grand', fantasy or period-based, since mainstream audiences aren't gonna relate to how the average enneagram 4 experience their day-to-day lives. 6 movies are gonna deal with existentialism, 4 movies are gonna deal with romance/isolation.

    Mad Men is probably the most masterful example I've seen of a mainstream drama dealing with image type issues (the protagonist is a melancholic 3w4).
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  5. #25
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Enneagram 6 movies are your typical existential Indie film about working class 25 years old psuedo-hipsters trying to find their way in the world through love and companionship. Enneagram 4 movies are gonna be more 'grand' and period-based, since mainstream audiences aren't gonna relate to how enneagram 4s experience their day-to-day lives.
    Going off of that: Enneagram 6 movies would be like Adaptation and Lost in Translation and Stranger than Fiction and American Beauty.
    Enneagram 4 movies would be... ?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  6. #26
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Going off of that: Enneagram 6 movies would be like Adaptation and Lost in Translation and Stranger than Fiction and American Beauty.
    Enneagram 4 movies would be... ?

    In my opinion four movies tend to be about going to the depths of the human soul. Tragic self exploration.

    e4 movies:

    A Single Man (Colin Firth's character is a four.)
    Revolutionary Road (Kate Winslet's character is a sexual 4, Leonardo DiCaprio's is a social 6.)
    Bright Star (Keats!)
    Solaris and The Mirror (Tarkovsky is about as 4w5 as they come.)
    Sylvia (kind of a bad movie but still...)
    The 400 Blows
    The Pianist
    Anything by Ingmar Bergman
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  7. #27
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    In my opinion four movies tend to be about going to the depths of the human soul. Tragic self exploration.

    e4 movies:

    A Single Man (Colin Firth's character is a four.)
    Revolutionary Road (Kate Winslet's character is a sexual 4, Leonardo DiCaprio's is a social 6.)
    Bright Star (Keats!)
    Solaris and The Mirror (Tarkovsky is about as 4w5 as they come.)
    Sylvia (kind of a bad movie but still...)
    The 400 Blows
    The Pianist
    Anything by Ingmar Bergman
    I don't think I know any of those movies! Ha!

    "Going to the depths of the human soul. Tragic self exploration." That sounds more accurate.

    There's this wonderful movie called, "Paper Man" from 2009 with Emma Stone, Ryan Reynolds and stars Jeff Daniels, that is so incredibly 4-ish. The two main characters have their sort of imaginary friend. It's their wish for a savior. For Jeff Daniels character, this takes the form of a superhero, played by Ryan Reynolds. For Emma Stone, it takes the form of a boy who is tragically in love with her, played by Kieren Culkin.

    I think I would put Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind in the four category.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Like I've said in other places, I've mulled this question over myself, so I thought I'd join in. There's a real interesting conversation going on here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    If you suddenly became an integral, indistinguishable, ordinary, average member of a group of dependable happy/optimistic friends who cherish you and cater to your needs, would you be content or frustrated?

    6s want to be liked and appreciated, 4s want to be understood and embraced for their essence. The Six is happy when the popular kids ask him to hang out, while the Four will still be sad regardless until he/she feels like a true, genuine connection has been made.
    I dunno if that's the best distinguisher here. I personally would be very happy if I found a group of friends who liked me, accepted me, embraced me, and catered to my every need. This is like, The Unattainable in my life. I wouldn't want to be "just like them" and would probably leave if they forced me to wear a "group uniform" or something...but 4s sometimes want to fit in too. It's just that a) they don't want to sacrifice their true essence and b) they often just can't fit in.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    It seems to me, as a four: Sixes have this more heady energy- a lot more anxious and keyed up. It's like you can hear the gears in their head turning. Or there's this sort of nervousness. They seem more either cynical or skeptical (typically 6w5) or trusting and lighter/fun (6w7). They seem more human to me, if that makes sense. Sixes may rebel for the sake of rebelling- for example, shaving their head and getting tattoos just to 'freak people out'. There are a lot more authority issues, or issues with belonging, or issues with deliberately setting themselves apart. Sixes are more loyal and supportive/ desire loyalty and support than fours. They tend to think out loud or tell their thoughts to others in order to process them- the 6w7s, anyway.

    Fours have more of a heavy heart energy- this regretful moroseness. When I think of four I think of the first verse of a poem by Paul Verlaine- Il pleure dans mon coeur comme il pleut sur la ville/ Quelle est cette langueur qui penetre mon coeur- It cries in my heart like it rains on the city/ What is this languor which penetrates my heart?

    Fours tend to be more sullen or despondent. This isn't to say a four can't have fun and can't be silly, but there's always this undercurrent that the fun silliness is fleeting. Fours are separated from others, but they don't do this deliberately. They just are. They may shave their head and get tattoos but it's more about expressing something within. Fours don't rebel so much as just have a different way of seeing things/ doing things. Others may perceive this as rebellion, but it's not. Fours are self absorbed- by this mean, every thing comes back into the self- how does this affect me? How does this make me feel? How does this relate to my past and me feelings of regret, shame, envy? Fours can also be supportive, but often drop people when the relationship 'feels wrong'. They have higher expectations and become frustrated more easily.
    Yeah, that's true. When I mistyped at 6, I kept getting offended that my quirkiness had to be related to "rebellion". I don't "try" to be different or weird--I just am. People have noted this about me all my life, and while it can be very alienating and othering at times, it's also something I'd never want to sacrifice (and would probably literally unable to do so--the weird just comes out).

    That's not to say I can't be rebellious--I am often contrary, especially when someone starts thinking they've got me all figured out. I am 6-fixed, though.

    @Stansmith, sure sixes can be deep and morose. I don't know how to explain it well, but six depression is different than four depression. Sixes, when depressed or upset remind me more of a crying baby who won't stop crying until someone comes and picks them up, while fours do their crying internally hoping that someone will notice that they aren't crying out loud and come check on them to see why they aren't. Back asswards, I know.
    Both 4s and 6s can get depressed for a variety of reasons; 4s tend to be more depressed about who they are (or aren't)--they tend to have some standard of they way they "want" to be, but fall perpertually short of that. There's also a sensitivity towards tragedy, suffering, and loss.

    6s are superego types and perhaps get depressed when they've messed up according to the standards of their superego (I'd appreciate a core 6 filling me in on this one).

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    What if one prefers to not be seen at all crying?

    Is it possible for ISFP's and/or enneagram 4's to become hardened and desensitized to overly emotional people?
    I strongly prefer people not to see me cry. A big gripe of mine is precisely that 4 descriptions make us out to be these weepy, outwardly emotional things. I'm actually very guarded about that; I think my own family are the only people who've seen me cry, mainly only as a kid and teen.

    I would, like, literally claim there was something in my eye rather than be seen crying at a movie theater, for instance. It doesn't mean I can't be moved internally, it just means I am extremely hesitant to show that to anyone.

    I personally do not like over-emotional people myself. The thing is, I'm ingrown, and my own issues are all I can handle. I'm really not good at being a shoulder to cry on, and I don't like crybabies. So I'd say it's possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Crying for me is more often from a feeling of defeat. And in the last few years, my defeat usually stems from financial woes and stress.

    I wonder if there are any threads on Enneagram 4 type movies vs Enneagram 6 type movies.
    Again, yeah, inner sadness and suffering does not have to equate to crying.

    As to the movies, I know I've seen a database for movies with Type X themes. Here it is; she categorizes each according to the main theme (not necessarily the types of the characters).

    http://www.enneagramdimensions.net/a...emes.pdf#start

  9. #29
    Stansmith
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    @Sanjuro

    Both 4s and 6s can get depressed for a variety of reasons; 4s tend to be more depressed about who they are (or aren't)--they tend to have some standard of they way they "want" to be, but fall perpertually short of that. There's also a sensitivity towards tragedy, suffering, and loss.

    6s are superego types and perhaps get depressed when they've messed up according to the standards of their superego (I'd appreciate a core 6 filling me in on this one).

    Same reason. It's just that average Six issues will seem more typical and reparable (I can't fit in at school, I'm not cut out to be a lawyer, Im not a good dad, etc.), while Four is always philosophical and ego-gratifying. Sixes have to experience trauma or be in a deep existential crisis to get to that point, and even then, they won't enjoy it or cling to it for the sake of ego. Six depression is boring and numb.

  10. #30
    Stansmith
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    Depressed Four



    Depressed Six





    Four depression looks almost forced and self-serving, while Six is utterly burdensome. Depressed Sixes binge eat, purge, become anorexics, sleep all day, stare at ceilings, do lots of prescription drugs, succumb to alcoholism, barely shower, mumble when spoken to..Depressed Fours buy a new wardrobe, write poetry, shun their loved ones, manipulate or deceive people, and slit their wrists on rare occasions. Six goes through biological and physical death, Four goes through a dramatic, operatic death.

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