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  1. #21
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I saw therapy as a way to 'fix' me and make me a better me. Sometimes I've felt the way you've described, while other times I've been cooperative depending on my motivation and my chemistry with the therapist.

    And yeah, it's a toughie. Image related issues is something I can relate to all too well; I don't know many males who've had it as intensely bad as I do. It seems like something completely trivial and feminine to the vast majority of guys.
    My guess, then, is you are likely on the 4/3 axis, be it 4w3 or 3w4.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    My guess, then, is you are likely on the 4/3 axis, be it 4w3 or 3w4.
    YUP!
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  3. #23
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    Yes. I suck terribly at Fi. Having all of those rigid values and extreme self-awareness would make my heart implode and explode my head off!
    What I don't understand is how they CONSTANTLY think about what they believe in. I do this sometimes, but they never quit.

  4. #24
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    What I don't understand is how they CONSTANTLY think about what they believe in. I do this sometimes, but they never quit.
    It's affirming for us, actually. It's like a positive feedback loop. We think about what we believe in ("feel" what we believe in? it's more like a "body" feeling), and if what we are engaging in is something we believe in, then we feel good because it means our life is in line with how we want to live our life, and it makes us think more about what we believe in. If what we are engaging in is not something we believe in, then we work on changing either the activity or the environment or ourselves to get us back in harmony and positively looping again. I assume Ti is similar in terms of always thinking about whether things are logical or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I think sixes tend to go to therapists more to get answers, advice, and support. I would never go to a therapist for that reason.
    Yes... I would go to a therapist (if I had more money, lol) to have a relatively neutral and supportive sounding board for personal growth, to help me see, clarify, understand, and work on my own thinking patterns and behavior, and to have a person to whom I can run anything by without it impacting my relationship with them, so I can let go of the constant need to monitor and adjust to please the other. I'm sure I'd probably still end up doing it out of compulsion, but I could start working on it, at least. It'd feel freeing and pleasing. And shoot, where else can you get someone to listen to you alone for a whole solid block of time? It'd be awesome.

  5. #25
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Also, I would like to add that the fact you go through this on a daily basis really lends itself to six. Fours with a six head type will go through this sort of freak out from time to time (speaking from personal experience and that of four friends with six head types), but for the most part they're sure about who they are.
    I think this is one of the most noticeable things that separates the three wing from the five wing in fours, myself. The three wing adds malleability, but when one is a core four, that really bothers.
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  6. #26
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    What I don't understand is how they CONSTANTLY think about what they believe in. I do this sometimes, but they never quit.
    Lol, it's not obsessive or something you consciously think about. You just know.

  7. #27
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    I think this is one of the most noticeable things that separates the three wing from the five wing in fours, myself. The three wing adds malleability, but when one is a core four, that really bothers.
    That's a good point. Maybe it's a more regular occurrence for the 4w3- 4w3s are more firmly entrenched in the image triad, after all- while for 4w5s it's more of an occasional thing.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    @Stansmith

    I am inclined to see you more as a 4 than as a 6, though I am open to either possibility.

    Be careful when soliciting advice about 6s--there is a trope going around on the internet that "6s just don't know they're 6s", "they can't admit it", and "all 6 descriptions are bad". I know this is at work, because I fell into it myself for about a year. I couldn't figure out my core--4 and 5 seemed to fit my problems the most, but so much in 4 descriptions is...very unlike me. So, following online advice, I typed as 6 and then just became uber-frustrated that the enneagram seemed so applicable to everyone else...and yet, it did nothing to explain who I "really am" (which, in retrospect, is so laughably 4ish that I literally cringe to think about it).

    In the end, Stansmith, you're just going to have to do what I did--look at your motivations. Look at the surrounding types--you should see those motivations at work within yourself as well as those of the core type. If you're a 4, you should see the 3-4-5 motivations in a line. If you're a 6, you should see the 5-6-7 motivations (Don't go by behaviors; strip it down to the core motivations).

    Anyway, I wanted to tell you that because you seem to be having the same trouble I did--I didn't see myself as "sensitive" enough to be a 4, not "emotional" enough. I can't relate to being "effete" or "refined" or hell, even "too depressed to get out of bed" or whatever things are "supposed" to define 4s. Instead, I've come to the conclusion that core 4 BEST describes my core psychology and struggles in life. Not every word will fit perfectly, and that goes for you, too.


    And as a side note:

    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    Yes. I suck terribly at Fi. Having all of those rigid values and extreme self-awareness would make my heart implode and explode my head off!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    What I don't understand is how they CONSTANTLY think about what they believe in. I do this sometimes, but they never quit.
    LOL guys, wow. I'm likely Fi-dom, and that's about the reason I thought I was Ti/Fe at first. "Rigid values" seem unrealistic and confining to me! I don't know WTF I "believe in" half the time! It's more like I take pleasure in feeling out what things mean TO ME, and how that might fit into the Grand Scheme of Awesome that I want my life to become. Others have already articulated the ins and outs of this better than me.

    Though I admit, my extreme self-awareness sometimes makes my head want to explode as well!

  9. #29
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @skylights

    It's affirming for us, actually. It's like a positive feedback loop. We think about what we believe in ("feel" what we believe in? it's more like a "body" feeling), and if what we are engaging in is something we believe in, then we feel good because it means our life is in line with how we want to live our life, and it makes us think more about what we believe in. If what we are engaging in is not something we believe in, then we work on changing either the activity or the environment or ourselves to get us back in harmony and positively looping again.
    Yeah @Elfboy tells me that Fi is almost like a function that seems to originate in the gut and when you break a value, you can feel it in your entire body. He says that it almost pains him to break a value or to do something that goes against his values. Is this true?

    I assume Ti is similar in terms of always thinking about whether things are logical or not.
    Yeah I guess that you could say that. I'm fairly decent at discerning whether things are logical or not. However, what I really have a hard time with is getting out of my head and ceasing to analyze the absolute hell out of everything. I think that Ti really needs to come with an off switch to tell the truth. I've learned how to control my mind a little better now, but in the past I used to constantly drink because it was the only way that I could shut off my mind. Now I'm not sure how much of that is Ti, and how much of that is because I'm a core head center type, but either way, it sucks.
    @Stansmith

    Lol, it's not obsessive or something you consciously think about. You just know.
    What do you mean by this?

  10. #30
    Stansmith
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    @The Great One

    I know what triggers my feels and what doesn't. It's just a natural gut reaction you have to things during day to day life.

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