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  1. #1
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Default Can type 1 and type 7 have peaceful, happy friendships?

    These types do share a few commonalities (they're both idealistic types, 7 disintegrates to 1 and 1 integrates at 7), but they frequently seem like perfect dramatic foils for each other. Type 1 is usually disciplined, restrained, and responsible, sometimes fulfilling the role of the Serious Leader. Type 7 is typically playful, adventurous, and open, at times meeting the stereotype of the Wild Child. One hell of an odd couple, side by side.

    I hate to generalize like that, but this topic is especially interesting to me owing to some trouble I'm having with a friend right now. She's the poster girl for an average 1, and I'm pretty sure that I'm a textbook average 7.

    When things are good, our personalities complement each other quite nicely. However, the timeline of this friendship has holes in it throughout - all of which seem inextricably linked to my behavior and her disapproval of it, especially regarding men and sexuality.

    On Monday night we tried talking out our problems (I made a mistake last week and was honest in telling her about it), but the conversation only lasted for about five minutes before she flew into full-on rage mode. I could feel her negativity so intensely that my whole body was shaking and for a while there, I honestly thought I was going to throw up. She was full of venom and sarcasm and wasn't at all interested in hearing my version of events, calming down only enough to deliver a thorough critique of my character flaws. She doesn't seem to accept our differences, or at best she feels upset about them, because she seems to view my perspectives as "wrong" as long as they deviate from hers (or imagines that I think she's wrong).

    I'll be honest, I feel like a kicked puppy right now. Even if I screwed up, I did the best I could in owning up to that. As much as part of me would like to keep the friendship, the rest of me wants to toss it out the window and move on, because I can't handle that shit. (There's nothing more exhausting than crying hysterically on your friend's couch while she belittles you for three hours.)

    So - type 7s, have you had trouble with any of the type 1s in your life? If so, how did you deal with it? Type 1s, same thing - have you experienced difficulty with type 7s and how did you navigate those problems?

    Is it possible for these two types to really understand each other? Can that happen in the averages ranges of health? Is my friend actually in an unhealthy zone? Are happy, longstanding friendships/relationships between these two types rare?
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  2. #2
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i think my ex husband was a 1 but i don't have a whole lot of other experience with that...is negativity like their thing or what? because that drove me crazy since day 10 or so.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  3. #3
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    @Lady X - did you and your ex-husband just fight all the time then, or what?

    As for the negativity...I don't know, but it freaks me out. I'm having a difficult time understanding the type 1 personality right now, even though I initially mistyped myself as one two years ago (when I wasn't feeling at all well - disintegration).
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    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    are you asking if my father and i can have a peaceful relationship? no, he gets on my nerves constantly, and i probably do the same. the maximum we can do is cordial distance

  5. #5
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Sorry to barge in, I'm neither a 1 or 7 but I've seen a lot of these friendships, and may have something to contribute...

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    These types do share a few commonalities (they're both idealistic types, 7 disintegrates to 1 and 1 integrates at 7), but they frequently seem like perfect dramatic foils for each other. Type 1 is usually disciplined, restrained, and responsible, sometimes fulfilling the role of the Serious Leader. Type 7 is typically playful, adventurous, and open, at times meeting the stereotype of the Wild Child. One hell of an odd couple, side by side.
    Maybe in some cases but they can have similar energy. My sister is a 1w2 and pretty much every close friend she's ever had has been a 7w6. She certainly has a disciplined, orderly side but she also has a silly, fun, party girl side. So I can really see how well these types can co-exist very well. I imagine the difference is that a 1 is more particular about when it's when it's time to let loose and when it's time to knuckle down.

    When things are good, our personalities complement each other quite nicely. However, the timeline of this friendship has holes in it throughout - all of which seem inextricably linked to my behavior and her disapproval of it, especially regarding men and sexuality.

    On Monday night we tried talking out our problems (I made a mistake last week and was honest in telling her about it), but the conversation only lasted for about five minutes before she flew into full-on rage mode. I could feel her negativity so intensely that my whole body was shaking and for a while there, I honestly thought I was going to throw up. She was full of venom and sarcasm and wasn't at all interested in hearing my version of events, calming down only enough to deliver a thorough critique of my character flaws. She doesn't seem to accept our differences, or at best she feels upset about them, because she seems to view my perspectives as "wrong" as long as they deviate from hers (or imagines that I think she's wrong).

    I'll be honest, I feel like a kicked puppy right now. Even if I screwed up, I did the best I could in owning up to that. As much as part of me would like to keep the friendship, the rest of me wants to toss it out the window and move on, because I can't handle that shit. (There's nothing more exhausting than crying hysterically on your friend's couch while she belittles you for three hours.)
    I know when my sister gets in that mindset it's when she's built up a lot of frustration over time and it just boils over - she can just unleash about every tiny negative thing that's been on her mind. I wouldn't take it as the literal demonstration of what she's feeling. I think with 1s, when they unleash they say a bunch of things they don't always mean, but once they're in that mode they can't really control it. They can definitely sound much more rigid and harsh than they really are.

    Also from what I have heard from my sister (and I often listen to her complaints about her friends), 1s get very frustrated with the 'clumsiness' of 7s. It's like to them, 7s sometimes seem like they're naively dawdling through life, making stupid decisions that are damaging to themselves and others, over and over again. This can be really upsetting for the 1s, in a way that can even be likened to offending to their sensibilities. They hate to see 7s make these bad decisions, especially when it they end up hurting themselves without realising that they are doing it. My sister loves her friends through all their faults, but often she wants to shake them and snap them out of it. Her anger at them is often just concern and frustration at not being able to help them be happy and healthy in life. I don't know, maybe I should call on my favourite 1w2 around here to verify this: do you agree @EJCC?

    This is not to say your friend was right to brow beat you and criticise your character so entirely. I think you really should tell her that you were very hurt by the way she spoke to you. Now that she's calmed down, you might be able to talk the whole situation through and sort it out (and get her to apologise!). Whatever you do, don't just drift away and not talk about it, as 7s are wont to do . I don't mean to offend you, but it worries me to see how 7s will walk away and don't seek understanding of the factors in conflict/problem - it means they never get closure or learn something from it (even if it's that they shouldn't let people treat them like that). And the 1s I know would much rather have everything out in the open, even if it means you end up going your separate ways.

    Is it possible for these two types to really understand each other? Can that happen in the averages ranges of health? Is my friend actually in an unhealthy zone? Are happy, longstanding friendships/relationships between these two types rare?
    I'd like to think it is totally possible for them to forge very happy friendships. I've seen first hand how great they can be together.

    I will say, from the 1 perspective, my sister has these intense close friendships with 7s for a 2-3 years and then they eventually let her down. She can certainly be difficult too but it worries me to see how many of these really, lovely girls (I've know many of them well) end up causing a rift with her based on their fickleness, or because they effectively abandon her over some guy they become infatuated with. In the end, from her perspective, it's like they just eventually drive her away. Maybe for the 7s involved, they just got tired off her irritability, and those occasional critical and overbearing remarks.

    But I believe that a lot of this is just down to some damaged/immature individuals, and that with healthy versions of both types the friendship can be more long lasting.
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  6. #6
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    When things are good, our personalities complement each other quite nicely. However, the timeline of this friendship has holes in it throughout - all of which seem inextricably linked to my behavior and her disapproval of it...
    OMG totally!!!

    …especially regarding men and sexuality.
    Okay well maybe not totally totally ('semi-totally' I guess is where we're at here.)

    One of my sisters is an IxTJ e1w9. Our entire family calls her Principessa (princess). Our entire family is also resolved to the fact that whenever she is around...all of us, individually and as a group, will have undoubtedly done a whole bunch shit wrong haha.

    Here are some basic rules I live by when it comes to Principessa:

    1.) If we hang out... she comes to my place...I do not go to hers as I might accidentally touch something I'm not supposed to touch...or maybe I won't magically know some magical rule.
    2.) If we go somewhere...I drive. If we go somewhere...she decides on where.
    3.) If we split the bill I always pay just a little bit more.
    4.) I (this is a critical one) NEVER ask her to do me any favors. And if she does surprise me with some gift or gesture...I promptly pay her back in kind.

    ^^those few things have gone a long way in keeping our relationship...good haha.

    Your friend is an extrovert though? Maybe a 1w2? I couldn't even imagine my sister yelling at me for 3hrs. What we generally get are eye rolls...and then she will get quiet as she starts to fill the entire room with totally bad energy... then she'll make some lame excuse for why she 'has to leave'...then she doesn't talk to you for several days... And then a few weeks later you'll find out that you didn't say 'thank you' for something...or interrupted her...or some other obvious crime of that nature.

    I don't quite understand what it was that you did that caused your friend to go off on you... Interestingly though, I have heard/read that e1s often demonstrate more compassion for larger transgressions than they do the 'everyday' stuff... (stuff that many of us would look past if it even occurred to us it was something to look past in the first place.) And while I don't know how true that is...it does seem to be true where my sister is concerned.

    If I have done something to my sister that truly warrants an apology and I go about making amends...she is usually responsive and good-natured about it. If I have done something that has no effect on her existence...but she still feels the need to provide me with her commentary (which with her is merely a single brief message of 'I would never do something so stupid seeing how I'm perfect and all...') kindly reminding her that we are two different people with two different Life journeys usually does the trick.

    She's by no means easy to get along with...but as my sister and an individual that is amazingly funny when she's in the right mood...it is worth it to me to work around the challenges.

    And it may also help to remain mindful of the fact that no matter how critical an e1 may seem towards you...it's nothing compared to how critical they are on themselves.

  7. #7
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    @Lady X - did you and your ex-husband just fight all the time then, or what?

    As for the negativity...I don't know, but it freaks me out. I'm having a difficult time understanding the type 1 personality right now, even though I initially mistyped myself as one two years ago (when I wasn't feeling at all well - disintegration).
    hey...no we didn't. we got along really well for a long time....until all the separateness needed for us to get along just made us too separate feeling.

    but...it was better if we just didn't need to agree on stuff. we had separate bathrooms and bank accounts for a long time. that helped. haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #8
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Maybe in some cases but they can have similar energy. My sister is a 1w2 and pretty much every close friend she's ever had has been a 7w6. She certainly has a disciplined, orderly side but she also has a silly, fun, party girl side. So I can really see how well these types can co-exist very well. I imagine the difference is that a 1 is more particular about when it's when it's time to let loose and when it's time to knuckle down.
    Yes! This is usually when we best get along - those moments when she lets go and allows herself to enjoy an experience without analyzing whether each detail is acceptable to her code of ethics. It's still hard sometimes. Frequently when we're out and about, she can't resist issuing commentary on the people around us, judging them and often unfairly so. She does have an adventurous side, but she seems to need me to unlock it for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross
    I know when my sister gets in that mindset it's when she's built up a lot of frustration over time and it just boils over - she can just unleash about every tiny negative thing that's been on her mind. I wouldn't take it as the literal demonstration of what she's feeling. I think with 1s, when they unleash they say a bunch of things they don't always mean, but once they're in that mode they can't really control it. They can definitely sound much more rigid and harsh than they really are.

    Also from what I have heard from my sister (and I often listen to her complaints about her friends), 1s get very frustrated with the 'clumsiness' of 7s. It's like to them, 7s sometimes seem like they're naively dawdling through life, making stupid decisions that are damaging to themselves and others, over and over again. This can be really upsetting for the 1s, in a way that can even be likened to offending to their sensibilities. They hate to see 7s make these bad decisions, especially when it they end up hurting themselves without realising that they are doing it. My sister loves her friends through all their faults, but often she wants to shake them and snap them out of it. Her anger at them is often just concern and frustration at not being able to help them be happy and healthy in life. I don't know, maybe I should call on my favourite 1w2 around here to verify this: do you agree @EJCC?
    I might seem like a high-functioning 7. My job is one that I love and work hard at; it's also part of a career track (one that I actively pursued) and it's often got a lot of responsibility attached. (I know we're not all exactly alike, but it's a little hard for me to imagine a balls-to-the-wall 7 dawdling through life!) Naturally, the overachieving part of my personality isn't one my friend has issue with at all. In fact, she seems very proud of me regarding my work. Nine times out of ten, she's the one who brings it up to other people.

    The areas of my personality that she does seem to feel no end of irritation with are those regarding sex, impulsivity, addiction on any level (even if it's only caffeine!)...and my whole overall demeanor, I guess. I didn't think it was this bad until Monday night, when it all came out via that aforementioned fiery exchange. She complained that my energy is too "intense" and "too forward," declaring that even if I've been selective when it comes to actually sleeping with guys, everybody thinks I'm a whore anyway and it's my own damn fault. She believes that my behaviors warrant criticism and correction, particularly in the sex department. The thing that honestly baffles me, though, is the fact that my sex life is...well, mine, and I'm far from promiscuous. The event that catalyzed all of this (the mistake that I've made) does indeed involve her - and that's fair - but otherwise throughout our entire friendship there has been a pervasive attitude of extreme dislike toward my sexuality, which she has always periodically vocalized. I don't know, nitpicking my choices/natural state of existence seems kinda mean, particularly when she is unaffected.

    After considering this and reading about your sister...could this maybe be a way that type 1s express their love? If so, it seems almost like a parent-child relationship, as if the 1 is saying, "Oh, this girl will never learn! How many times do I have to clean up her messes for her?" There's an air of condescension there, but only because the 1 cares about the 7 and believes that showing them the "right" way will be good for the 7 in the long run. Hmm. The trouble is, "right" and "wrong" tend to ignore that fairly large grey area of subjectivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross
    This is not to say your friend was right to brow beat you and criticise your character so entirely. I think you really should tell her that you were very hurt by the way she spoke to you. Now that she's calmed down, you might be able to talk the whole situation through and sort it out (and get her to apologise!). Whatever you do, don't just drift away and not talk about it, as 7s are wont to do . I don't mean to offend you, but it worries me to see how 7s will walk away and don't seek understanding of the factors in conflict/problem - it means they never get closure or learn something from it (even if it's that they shouldn't let people treat them like that). And the 1s I know would much rather have everything out in the open, even if it means you end up going your separate ways.
    You're very right about my compulsion to run for the hills. I would like to think that she'd be open to talk with me again sometime, but I don't want to deal with another meltdown. Although, sadly, it sort of feels to me as though she's already aired every bit of discontent she could think of. I know that she doesn't hate me, that deep down a big piece of this is the result of her projecting her self-hatred onto others (1s are so critical of themselves, and this poor thing is emotionally bleeding from excessive castigation), but I'm hoping that it isn't so heavy and terrible that she's going to choose the termination of our communication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross
    I'd like to think it is totally possible for them to forge very happy friendships. I've seen first hand how great they can be together.

    I will say, from the 1 perspective, my sister has these intense close friendships with 7s for a 2-3 years and then they eventually let her down. She can certainly be difficult too but it worries me to see how many of these really, lovely girls (I've know many of them well) end up causing a rift with her based on their fickleness, or because they effectively abandon her over some guy they become infatuated with. In the end, from her perspective, it's like they just eventually drive her away. Maybe for the 7s involved, they just got tired off her irritability, and those occasional critical and overbearing remarks.

    But I believe that a lot of this is just down to some damaged/immature individuals, and that with healthy versions of both types the friendship can be more long lasting.
    Your sister sounds like a pretty well-balanced 1, for the most part, and it seems like her 7 companions were a bit on the flighty and immature end of the spectrum. I think if I were your sister, those girls would have tried my patience too!

    Maybe that's what it takes to make it work - a healthy 1 and a healthy 7, meeting somewhere in the middle, two complementary halves of an awesome friendship. (Without growth and maturity, perhaps they'd just consistently get on each other's nerves.)

    Thanks very much for your insight, I do appreciate it.
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  9. #9
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    Yes! This is usually when we best get along - those moments when she lets go and allows herself to enjoy an experience without analyzing whether each detail is acceptable to her code of ethics. It's still hard sometimes. Frequently when we're out and about, she can't resist issuing commentary on the people around us, judging them and often unfairly so. She does have an adventurous side, but she seems to need me to unlock it for her.
    Yeah, I'm not sure how to better unlock that side of them. My sister has always been a bit of a rebel so she wasn't as strict on adhering to 'appropriate behaviour' (I know this doesn't sound very 1-like but trust me she is). I think they have to learn that everyone's 'faults' (real or otherwise) aren't their problem, and once they know they don't have to fix everything, they can relax more.

    I might seem like a high-functioning 7. My job is one that I love and work hard at; it's also part of a career track (one that I actively pursued) and it's often got a lot of responsibility attached. (I know we're not all exactly alike, but it's a little hard for me to imagine a balls-to-the-wall 7 dawdling through life!) Naturally, the overachieving part of my personality isn't one my friend has issue with at all. In fact, she seems very proud of me regarding my work. Nine times out of ten, she's the one who brings it up to other people.

    The areas of my personality that she does seem to feel no end of irritation with are those regarding sex, impulsivity, addiction on any level (even if it's only caffeine!)...and my whole overall demeanor, I guess. I didn't think it was this bad until Monday night, when it all came out via that aforementioned fiery exchange. She complained that my energy is too "intense" and "too forward," declaring that even if I've been selective when it comes to actually sleeping with guys, everybody thinks I'm a whore anyway and it's my own damn fault. She believes that my behaviors warrant criticism and correction, particularly in the sex department. The thing that honestly baffles me, though, is the fact that my sex life is...well, mine, and I'm far from promiscuous. The event that catalyzed all of this (the mistake that I've made) does indeed involve her - and that's fair - but otherwise throughout our entire friendship there has been a pervasive attitude of extreme dislike toward my sexuality, which she has always periodically vocalized. I don't know, nitpicking my choices/natural state of existence seems kinda mean, particularly when she is unaffected.
    Hmm, this makes me wonder about your friend's instinct stacking.

    There can be a bit of that with 1s: judging sexual/relationship choices (personally, I don't care much for that 'slut shaming'). OTOH I do understand the criticism can be more meaningful than that. With some of the 7s I've known, their decision making (sometimes in regards to sex) can be easily clouded by personal issues they're trying to counteract. 7s can rush in without seeing the negative patterns their behaviour results in and how their underlying problems drive them to it. The personal issues are not type related, but there can be an obliviousness about them that needs drawing attention to, and 1s can be a lot more observant about these things. I don't know if this is what your friend was trying to get at (clearly, in a less than constructive way) or whether it was just plain judgementalism. Personally, I've know several people that are more free with their bodies without it being problematic at all in the long term, IMO.

    Another thing to remember is that 1s like to talk about improving other people/situations that aren't directly their business: 1w9s are the philosophers and like to reform society in their minds, whereas 1w2s are more like the activists in the trenches. In other words, they like to make other people's problems their own. Perhaps you could get across to your friend that you appreciate her help, but that your successes and failures are your own, and that you're happy living with those consequences. If she can see that you're ultimately happy and OK with things, maybe she wouldn't feel such a need to 'fix' you (ie. because there's nothing to fix).

    After considering this and reading about your sister...could this maybe be a way that type 1s express their love? If so, it seems almost like a parent-child relationship, as if the 1 is saying, "Oh, this girl will never learn! How many times do I have to clean up her messes for her?" There's an air of condescension there, but only because the 1 cares about the 7 and believes that showing them the "right" way will be good for the 7 in the long run. Hmm. The trouble is, "right" and "wrong" tend to ignore that fairly large grey area of subjectivity.
    Yes, this is what I was thinking after discussing this too. But it can go both ways and I don't think it's always a negative relationship. 1s are naturally paternalistic and 7s have Peter Pan syndrome. Having each other around can help balance each other out: 7s get something out of the groundedness and guidance from 1s, and in return, the 1s get someone to reform, as well as encouragement to let loose and connect to their inner passions.

    You're very right about my compulsion to run for the hills. I would like to think that she'd be open to talk with me again sometime, but I don't want to deal with another meltdown. Although, sadly, it sort of feels to me as though she's already aired every bit of discontent she could think of. I know that she doesn't hate me, that deep down a big piece of this is the result of her projecting her self-hatred onto others (1s are so critical of themselves, and this poor thing is emotionally bleeding from excessive castigation), but I'm hoping that it isn't so heavy and terrible that she's going to choose the termination of our communication.
    Oh, if she started up again I think you would be well within your rights to tell her to shut her mouth and listen. You listened to her browbeating so it's only right you should have you say. I do understand your unwillingness to approach her after all that - I would be too.

    Your sister sounds like a pretty well-balanced 1, for the most part, and it seems like her 7 companions were a bit on the flighty and immature end of the spectrum. I think if I were your sister, those girls would have tried my patience too!

    Maybe that's what it takes to make it work - a healthy 1 and a healthy 7, meeting somewhere in the middle, two complementary halves of an awesome friendship. (Without growth and maturity, perhaps they'd just consistently get on each other's nerves.)
    It might sound that way but like I said they're such great girls and I felt like those splits didn't have to happen. I really wished those friendships had worked out because they were so happy together.

    I really think the two types could work together, if like you say, they can meet in the middle.

    Thanks very much for your insight, I do appreciate it.
    I glad it's valuable. I didn't want to get in the middle with a bunch of useless information (that might have sounded critical or negative).
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  10. #10
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    So you slept with her ex boyfriend?
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