User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 27

  1. #11
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    I think it's difficult to ascertain which aspect of your relationship is the problem unless the actual specific problems are brought out.

    All I see is a bunch of vague hintings at what occurred and personally flavored bias over the events that took place.

    I think it's common sense that a random heathy x type can theoretically get along with a random y type. And I think two people who have issues of their own are going to naturally have issues with each other at some point.

    Distilling this down to enneagram types seems like a distraction from reality.

  2. #12
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    MBTI
    NiSe
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/sp
    Posts
    445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Your friend is an extrovert though? Maybe a 1w2? I couldn't even imagine my sister yelling at me for 3hrs. What we generally get are eye rolls...and then she will get quiet as she starts to fill the entire room with totally bad energy... then she'll make some lame excuse for why she 'has to leave'...then she doesn't talk to you for several days... And then a few weeks later you'll find out that you didn't say 'thank you' for something...or interrupted her...or some other obvious crime of that nature.
    She's an ISFJ, and yes, most likely a 1w2. Normally that is what you'd get from her - eye rolls and a general air of dissatisfaction - but she definitely lost her cool the other day and it was terrifying. I guess lots of those everyday, little things bother her all the time, but she tries to hide her discontent as much as possible until it all comes bubbling over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry
    I don't quite understand what it was that you did that caused your friend to go off on you... Interestingly though, I have heard/read that e1s often demonstrate more compassion for larger transgressions than they do the 'everyday' stuff... (stuff that many of us would look past if it even occurred to us it was something to look past in the first place.) And while I don't know how true that is...it does seem to be true where my sister is concerned.
    I'll try to stick to brevity, but here's how it all went down:

    My friend is single, I'm single, and so is a guy we met one night about two months ago. My friend rapidly developed a crush on the guy, although she would openly admit to a sort of contempt for his casual lifestyle. It was a lot of cognitive dissonance for her to deal with ("We would never work together!"), but she was physically attracted to him and she can't separate her emotions from that, so it became a proper crush. To me, he was just sort of there, a friend we would sometimes hang out with.

    Well, the weeks went by and on several occasions my friend hung out with him alone, kind of hoping that some sparks would fly. They never did. She started flirting with other dudes, and then about two weeks ago met somebody at a wedding reception and started going on dates with him. She seemed very excited about this guy, and last I heard, things were going pretty well for them.

    One night last week, the original guy asked me to grab drinks with him, and I did, thinking nothing of it. It was the first time we'd hung out without her, and I was quite intoxicated by evening's end. We decided that I'd crash at his house (my home is much farther away - a cab would have been ridiculously expensive - and I was in no shape to drive). Well, he's got a housemate and it was mostly for this reason that I ended up staying in his room with him (plus, I've shared beds with friends before when too drunk to drive, and it's always been okay). Some cuddling ensued at his initiation, but that's pretty much the extent of it (I put the brakes on before it started going there).

    Well, I knew that my friend probably still had some leftover feelings for this guy even if it wasn't in the cards and even if she was seeing somebody else, so I guess I felt like my screw-up came in the form of not shrugging him off. It was all circumstance, nothing premeditated, but I knew that it could still inspire feelings of jealousy and hurt, so I felt really bad and told her what had happened immediately. I've been in the doghouse ever since.

    I did make a mistake, and I have blamed myself for it, beaten myself up over it, and felt pretty guilty about it...so I won't be too terribly surprised if several people here decide to say, "Well, you deserved what you got." I'm definitely still dealing with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry
    If I have done something to my sister that truly warrants an apology and I go about making amends...she is usually responsive and good-natured about it. If I have done something that has no effect on her existence...but she still feels the need to provide me with her commentary (which with her is merely a single brief message of 'I would never do something so stupid seeing how I'm perfect and all...') kindly reminding her that we are two different people with two different Life journeys usually does the trick.

    She's by no means easy to get along with...but as my sister and an individual that is amazingly funny when she's in the right mood...it is worth it to me to work around the challenges.

    And it may also help to remain mindful of the fact that no matter how critical an e1 may seem towards you...it's nothing compared to how critical they are on themselves.
    Navigating this one might be tricky, since I've tried apologizing to her several times and right now she's not having it. My best bet is to give it time. However, your point about 1s being hardest on themselves of all is what has me very worried; the more time that slides by between this fight and the present moment, I find myself increasingly concerned for her own well-being. The girl started going off on tangents that were completely unrelated to me and our situation, at one point calling her employers "evil." This is what has me feeling that my friend is actually quite unhappy with herself and her life, that what I did was essentially the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Naturally, in the big scheme of things, I want to keep the friendship. I want my friend to see that it's okay to have two different life journeys, as you say, but I feel that I can't reach her from my current standing because I'm one of the sources of her pain. (I owed her the apologies that I've given her, I'm not disputing that.) Has there ever been a time when your sister didn't want to recognize that you were genuinely sorry for something?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    So you slept with her ex boyfriend?
    Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I think it's difficult to ascertain which aspect of your relationship is the problem unless the actual specific problems are brought out.

    All I see is a bunch of vague hintings at what occurred and personally flavored bias over the events that took place.
    Naturally, and you're very wise to take that into consideration.

    I described the situation in my reply to Starry; it's a bit long, but it's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned
    I think it's common sense that a random heathy x type can theoretically get along with a random y type. And I think two people who have issues of their own are going to naturally have issues with each other at some point.

    Distilling this down to enneagram types seems like a distraction from reality.
    Agreed. I was wondering about the various experiences people have had with these types, however, because every so often it's nice to hear fresh perspectives. Talking about it anonymously is also cathartic, and we are on a typology forum...if I want to explore this thing from within the microcosm of psychological theory, why not kick around some ideas here?

    This angle isn't the only one I'm taking; far from it. I view this as a real-life problem between two people, not a simplistic issue solely linked to Enneagram types. It's vast and complex and much deeper than anything that could be solved here, but it still felt like an interesting topic since my friend and I have both been acting like mid-level or unhealthy versions of those personality types. I see your point, but no worries. It's just food for thought, that's all.

    In the end, I'm going to go with my gut and approach what I feel is best for the big picture, but I'm very much enjoying reading everyone's contributions - thanks, guys.
    AMERICAN TRASH
    Ni > Se > Fe > Ti
    7w6 cp
    so SX it hurts
    Sanguine/Choleric
    Chaotic Good

    ~ Gryffindor on the streets, Slytherin in the sheets ~

  3. #13
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    eh...i don't know...seems like such a non issue to me. i wouldn't have cared. i think she should get over herself.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #14
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    18,436

    Default

    After reading the backstory: I don't think "you deserved what you got", nor do I think that what she was doing was appropriate or excusable -- and at the same time, I think she had legitimate reason to be upset.

    I find it kind of funny that you chose this example, which is so obviously colored by personal issues and relationship drama, to ask huge generalized questions about whether these two types can EVER be peaceful and happy together -- when, IMO, it's obvious that like @Saturned said, any two types can be happy together, and type doesn't predict compatibility that well. Did you take a while to process the non-type-relatedness of your situation, or were you trying to find a typology-related excuse to vent, or what?

    ^ I don't mean for that to come across as harsh, so don't take it personally. I'm just confused, is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I imagine the difference is that a 1 is more particular about when it's when it's time to let loose and when it's time to knuckle down.
    Yeah. Generally speaking, 1 = more focused and better at quickly and systematically Getting Shit Done -- especially SJ 1s, like me and like the ISFJ in question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I know when my sister gets in that mindset it's when she's built up a lot of frustration over time and it just boils over - she can just unleash about every tiny negative thing that's been on her mind. I wouldn't take it as the literal demonstration of what she's feeling. I think with 1s, when they unleash they say a bunch of things they don't always mean, but once they're in that mode they can't really control it. They can definitely sound much more rigid and harsh than they really are.
    I might actually disagree, a bit, on this point? Or at least, IME, it's more complicated.

    Type 1 carries these judgments around constantly. The vast majority of the time, those judgments don't make us angry. They just sit there. The minority of the time, those judgments might make us angry, and if we lash out, we'll exclaim the judgments at others. After the fact, we'll feel horrible, but it won't be because we didn't mean it -- it'll be because we never should have said those judgments, and the judgments usually aren't that huge a deal.

    A personal example: I have a few friends who flake out on things regularly. That isn't something I like, but usually I accept it, and schedule around it, assuming that they either won't show, or will be late. But this past fall, one of those friends totally took me aback by completely standing me up, choosing to eat by herself because she "needed to recharge" and without having the courtesy to tell me. I lashed out at her via text -- something along the lines of "I wish you'd have the courtesy of letting me know the next time you're going to ignore the plans we make" -- and then almost immediately apologized for lashing out at her, saying we could reschedule for some other time. Now, eight or so months later: I still think she's a flake, I still think it's ridiculous that she finds that behavior acceptable, but I regret how rudely I acted, and wished I could have made the conversation more constructive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Also from what I have heard from my sister (and I often listen to her complaints about her friends), 1s get very frustrated with the 'clumsiness' of 7s. It's like to them, 7s sometimes seem like they're naively dawdling through life, making stupid decisions that are damaging to themselves and others, over and over again. This can be really upsetting for the 1s, in a way that can even be likened to offending to their sensibilities. They hate to see 7s make these bad decisions, especially when it they end up hurting themselves without realising that they are doing it. My sister loves her friends through all their faults, but often she wants to shake them and snap them out of it. Her anger at them is often just concern and frustration at not being able to help them be happy and healthy in life. I don't know, maybe I should call on my favourite 1w2 around here to verify this: do you agree @EJCC?
    I have a friend who's an ENFP and I think tritype 378 -- strong 7 fix -- and the fact that I've been friends with her for so long, has trained me pretty well to deal with people who make their life decisions this way. I think it's also taught me that life is never as predictable and linear as a 1w2 would like to believe.

    I do disapprove of some decisions she's made. For example: she doesn't want to go to college, and while that isn't something that I disapprove of in itself -- plenty of people do well without undergrad degrees -- I think that
    1) Everything she could possibly want to do career-wise would benefit from college; and
    2) Her reasons for not going ("I'm not meant for college") are almost definitely based on fear of college, fear of failure, and fear of boredom, but she's in denial about it.

    I've told her how I feel, once or maybe twice. She knows my opinion, and will go off and do whatever she wants; she's a free spirit. In the meantime... There's a lot of wisdom in the Serenity Prayer, regardless of whether or not you're religious. When there's nothing I can do to stop her, there's no point in keeping on fighting to change her mind. It's a waste of energy.

    I think that any 1 who has a big group of friends who disagree with them on key issues, has learned to accept this same philosophy. We do have an internalized "right" and "wrong" way of going about things, but at the same time, surrounding yourself with only people who agree with you becomes a bit cultish, and no one would be there to correct you if you did end up being wrong.

    /tangent
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This is not to say your friend was right to brow beat you and criticise your character so entirely. I think you really should tell her that you were very hurt by the way she spoke to you. Now that she's calmed down, you might be able to talk the whole situation through and sort it out (and get her to apologise!). Whatever you do, don't just drift away and not talk about it, as 7s are wont to do . I don't mean to offend you, but it worries me to see how 7s will walk away and don't seek understanding of the factors in conflict/problem - it means they never get closure or learn something from it (even if it's that they shouldn't let people treat them like that). And the 1s I know would much rather have everything out in the open, even if it means you end up going your separate ways.
    ^ I 100% agree on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I will say, from the 1 perspective, my sister has these intense close friendships with 7s for a 2-3 years and then they eventually let her down. She can certainly be difficult too but it worries me to see how many of these really, lovely girls (I've know many of them well) end up causing a rift with her based on their fickleness, or because they effectively abandon her over some guy they become infatuated with. In the end, from her perspective, it's like they just eventually drive her away. Maybe for the 7s involved, they just got tired off her irritability, and those occasional critical and overbearing remarks.
    This is really sad. Your sister is ESTJ, right? Which would mean that from both Enneagram and MBTI, she's extremely dedicated and doesn't have a hard time being loyal to friends. She's giving what she perceives to be an essential and not all that difficult thing -- commitment -- and not getting it at all in return.


    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    (I know we're not all exactly alike, but it's a little hard for me to imagine a balls-to-the-wall 7 dawdling through life!)
    To be fair: it's less dawdling through life, and more charging through life in completely random and possibly hedonistic directions. (Which is fine, but it takes a bit of a mindset adjustment for a 1 to understand!)
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    The thing that honestly baffles me, though, is the fact that my sex life is...well, mine, and I'm far from promiscuous. The event that catalyzed all of this (the mistake that I've made) does indeed involve her - and that's fair - but otherwise throughout our entire friendship there has been a pervasive attitude of extreme dislike toward my sexuality, which she has always periodically vocalized. I don't know, nitpicking my choices/natural state of existence seems kinda mean, particularly when she is unaffected.
    1w2 wants to be helpful; they want to provide for people, they want to solve problems. If someone close to them is doing something they find objectionable, it IS their business, because it's their duty as a friend to help their friends when they need help. (See my ENFP example, earlier in the post.) If you were doing your math homework, your dad was a math professor, you were struggling to get it done, and your dad offered to help, would you be confused as to why he thought it was "his business"? It's not about business, it's about this process: They need help, I'm qualified to help them, I care about them, thus it is my duty to step in.

    In fairness, I think your friend should let up. But if she's an average level 1, she may not be that great at picking her battles yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    After considering this and reading about your sister...could this maybe be a way that type 1s express their love? If so, it seems almost like a parent-child relationship, as if the 1 is saying, "Oh, this girl will never learn! How many times do I have to clean up her messes for her?" There's an air of condescension there, but only because the 1 cares about the 7 and believes that showing them the "right" way will be good for the 7 in the long run. Hmm. The trouble is, "right" and "wrong" tend to ignore that fairly large grey area of subjectivity.
    It is ABSOLUTELY a way of expressing love. (See my above quote.) I guess it's a little condescending? -- but I'd prefer the big sister-little sister metaphor. Parent-child assumes that the child is never really supposed to do anything in return. Big sister-little sister assumes that they're still technically peers, and they're still best friends forever. Confidantes. But the big sister has a duty to help and protect the younger one.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    You're very right about my compulsion to run for the hills. I would like to think that she'd be open to talk with me again sometime, but I don't want to deal with another meltdown. Although, sadly, it sort of feels to me as though she's already aired every bit of discontent she could think of. I know that she doesn't hate me, that deep down a big piece of this is the result of her projecting her self-hatred onto others (1s are so critical of themselves, and this poor thing is emotionally bleeding from excessive castigation), but I'm hoping that it isn't so heavy and terrible that she's going to choose the termination of our communication.
    It's tough because I'm not sure what the Fe 1w2 attitude would be, here. As a Te 1w2, I'd prefer to have a conversation about it, to talk about it once my emotions had calmed down -- I can guarantee that she's not going to flip out on you a second time to the same extent that she did before, though I understand why you'd be afraid of that possibility. But I don't "get" ISFJs, as much as I "get" my own type.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    Maybe that's what it takes to make it work - a healthy 1 and a healthy 7, meeting somewhere in the middle, two complementary halves of an awesome friendship. (Without growth and maturity, perhaps they'd just consistently get on each other's nerves.)
    Or a different type of average 1 and a different type of average 7. It depends too much on individual factors. (Once again, I agree with Saturned)
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #15
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,628

    Default

    Antihero... I keep getting interrupted and will return later in order to respond some more but thought I would at least post the little I did get typed-out now.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    I did make a mistake, and I have blamed myself for it, beaten myself up over it, and felt pretty guilty about it...so I won't be too terribly surprised if several people here decide to say, "Well, you deserved what you got." I'm definitely still dealing with that.
    I'll be honest, I'm currently in a state of confusion right now. I mean, everyday I'll experience all kinds of things that fuel my ongoing awareness of just how different I am from 'everybody else' and you know, I've come to terms with it haha. I know it's going to happen. But every once and a while I'll stumble across something like this and I'll be left somewhat stunned wondering if I even heard correctly/understood properly... And from what I've already implied it takes a lot for me to question things of this nature...

    So, help me out here... You are single...and spent one drunken evening cuddling with a guy friend that is also single. But your ISFJ e1 female friend that A.) has no romantic history or apparent prospective future with this mutual guy friend And B.) is currently in some kind of committed relationship with another guy... totally loses it and yells at you for 3hrs...and not only does this make sense to you in someway...you've 'beaten yourself up for it'...and anticipate a possible thrashing from others here as well?

    ^^the way I see it is if most people feel your friend is in the right ...then it's time now for the 'Fi Mothership' or the 'ENFP Stardust' or whatever craft stranded me here to return for me and take me back home.

    Like, this is so far from my grasp I can't even imagine what she said to you and if you were willing to share I'd be so interested in hearing it.

  6. #16
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Antihero... I keep getting interrupted and will return later in order to respond some more but thought I would at least post the little I did get typed-out now.



    I'll be honest, I'm currently in a state of confusion right now. I mean, everyday I'll experience all kinds of things that fuel my ongoing awareness of just how different I am from 'everybody else' and you know, I've come to terms with it haha. I know it's going to happen. But every once and a while I'll stumble across something like this and I'll be left somewhat stunned wondering if I even heard correctly/understood properly... And from what I've already implied it takes a lot for me to question things of this nature...

    So, help me out here... You are single...and spent one drunken evening cuddling with a guy friend that is also single. But your ISFJ e1 female friend that A.) has no romantic history or apparent prospective future with this mutual guy friend And B.) is currently in some kind of committed relationship with another guy... totally loses it and yells at you for 3hrs...and not only does this make sense to you in someway...you've 'beaten yourself up for it'...and anticipate a possible thrashing from others here as well?

    ^^the way I see it is if most people feel your friend is in the right ...then it's time now for the 'Fi Mothership' or the 'ENFP Stardust' or whatever craft stranded me here to return for me and take me back home.

    Like, this is so far from my grasp I can't even imagine what she said to you and if you were willing to share I'd been so interested in hearing it.
    that's where i'm at with it too...just imagining myself as the isfj in this scenario...i'd be like....ooooh cuddling eh?? do you like him?? aww you guys could be cool together!! etc...i mean...i never dated the guy...am dating someone else...i obviously saw something about the guy at some point so i must think he's good enough for my friend.

    i don't get these rules either miss @Starry not that i expect you'll find that surprising.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #17
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    18,436

    Default

    ^ It's not that she was in the right ("she"= the ISFJ). In fact, she reacted completely inappropriately. (Was it actually 3 hours? Were you exaggerating?) It's more a matter of: She had a lot of shit going on, and everything built up to her overreacting to this. If I'm interpreting/summing this up correctly, the point is that sometimes a 1 will lash out about something relatively small and unimportant if they've had stressors accumulate over time.

    All I was saying, was that I could see how she would react that way, considering the information provided on the thread thus far.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #18
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ^ It's not that she was in the right ("she"= the ISFJ). In fact, she reacted completely inappropriately. (Was it actually 3 hours? Were you exaggerating?) It's more a matter of: She had a lot of shit going on, and everything built up to her overreacting to this. If I'm interpreting/summing this up correctly, the point is that sometimes a 1 will lash out about something relatively small and unimportant if they've had stressors accumulate over time.

    All I was saying, was that I could see how she would react that way, considering the information provided on the thread thus far.
    Omgosh EJCC... I am not even kidding you. I had just sat down and was reading where you wrote "...I think she had a legitimate reason to be upset" and was getting ready to mention you in order to understand your thoughts here.

    There's always a sense of doubt in these kinds of threads because we only ever get one-side of the story and then there are all kinds of outstanding considerations like...differing perspectives/pov, blind-spots, memory/forgetfulness, etc. But if we take the story that is presented here as if it is a relatively truthful presentation of what occurred...are you saying that while the ISFJ should not have reacted in such an aggressive manner...she had a good reason to be upset because her friend cuddled with a guy she had had interest in? (I apologize if I'm completely missing something here.)

  9. #19
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    After reading the backstory: I don't think "you deserved what you got", nor do I think that what she was doing was appropriate or excusable -- and at the same time, I think she had legitimate reason to be upset.
    Yeah, I wouldn't say the blame was one-sided at all. If what @AntiheroComplex said is an accurate depiction of events I'm inclined to side with her. But then I don't entirely get the social standard that men can be implicitly 'bagsed' by a woman, even if there is nothing between them: past or present (or future, by all indications). I mean she basically relinquished interest in him, and AC actually turned the guy down - what more do you want? I could understand the friend being annoyed but not a 3 hour rant.

    Anyway it's silly for me to debate the particulars without some first-hand knowledge.

    ^ I don't mean for that to come across as harsh, so don't take it personally. I'm just confused, is all.
    I'm guessing the event may have been so harsh and traumatic it made her question compatibility of the two types.

    I might actually disagree, a bit, on this point? Or at least, IME, it's more complicated.

    Type 1 carries these judgments around constantly. The vast majority of the time, those judgments don't make us angry. They just sit there. The minority of the time, those judgments might make us angry, and if we lash out, we'll exclaim the judgments at others. After the fact, we'll feel horrible, but it won't be because we didn't mean it -- it'll be because we never should have said those judgments, and the judgments usually aren't that huge a deal.

    A personal example: I have a few friends who flake out on things regularly. That isn't something I like, but usually I accept it, and schedule around it, assuming that they either won't show, or will be late. But this past fall, one of those friends totally took me aback by completely standing me up, choosing to eat by herself because she "needed to recharge" and without having the courtesy to tell me. I lashed out at her via text -- something along the lines of "I wish you'd have the courtesy of letting me know the next time you're going to ignore the plans we make" -- and then almost immediately apologized for lashing out at her, saying we could reschedule for some other time. Now, eight or so months later: I still think she's a flake, I still think it's ridiculous that she finds that behavior acceptable, but I regret how rudely I acted, and wished I could have made the conversation more constructive.
    Oh, absolutely. I didn't express that well. I guess what I was trying to get at is that the anger can be disproportionate to the significance of the issue. The principle might still bother them, but it might not as big of a deal as it might have been made out to be. In that way, the anger and rigidity isn't really 'meant'; they're not necessarily meaningful and can just be products of the heat of the moment.

    I don't know, do you agree?

    I have a friend who's an ENFP and I think tritype 378 -- strong 7 fix -- and the fact that I've been friends with her for so long, has trained me pretty well to deal with people who make their life decisions this way. I think it's also taught me that life is never as predictable and linear as a 1w2 would like to believe.

    I do disapprove of some decisions she's made. For example: she doesn't want to go to college, and while that isn't something that I disapprove of in itself -- plenty of people do well without undergrad degrees -- I think that
    1) Everything she could possibly want to do career-wise would benefit from college; and
    2) Her reasons for not going ("I'm not meant for college") are almost definitely based on fear of college, fear of failure, and fear of boredom, but she's in denial about it.

    I've told her how I feel, once or maybe twice. She knows my opinion, and will go off and do whatever she wants; she's a free spirit. In the meantime... There's a lot of wisdom in the Serenity Prayer, regardless of whether or not you're religious. When there's nothing I can do to stop her, there's no point in keeping on fighting to change her mind. It's a waste of energy.

    I think that any 1 who has a big group of friends who disagree with them on key issues, has learned to accept this same philosophy. We do have an internalized "right" and "wrong" way of going about things, but at the same time, surrounding yourself with only people who agree with you becomes a bit cultish, and no one would be there to correct you if you did end up being wrong.

    /tangent
    I love the Serenity Prayer! I find it helpful too.

    I like how you explained your reasoning. That's what I was trying to get at.

    This is really sad. Your sister is ESTJ, right? Which would mean that from both Enneagram and MBTI, she's extremely dedicated and doesn't have a hard time being loyal to friends. She's giving what she perceives to be an essential and not all that difficult thing -- commitment -- and not getting it at all in return.

    Yeah, that's exactly right - and it is really sad. I think it might partly be a Sx-dom issue of putting all your eggs in one basket, though (well not ALL, but most of them). Typically, she and her best friend are both equally wrapped up in one another, but then they eventually bail. She was also badly burned by a very intense relationship with a guy who turned out to be emotionally manipulative, cheating, commitment-phobic piece of shit (who was not a 7 BTW). It's getting harder and harder to re-assure her that it's not all because of her, and that there are people out there that are loyal and dedicated in return. The pattern is becoming difficult to ignore.

    Anyway, sorry to get off topic.


    It is ABSOLUTELY a way of expressing love. (See my above quote.) I guess it's a little condescending? -- but I'd prefer the big sister-little sister metaphor. Parent-child assumes that the child is never really supposed to do anything in return. Big sister-little sister assumes that they're still technically peers, and they're still best friends forever. Confidantes. But the big sister has a duty to help and protect the younger one.


    BTW when I talked about paternalism in 1s, I didn't mean that it's necessarily literal. The healthy kind is helpful without any condescension.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #20
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    2,319

    Default

    no

Similar Threads

  1. [ISFP] Are you an ISFP and a type nine? Have you experienced this?
    By Generalist in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-01-2017, 12:50 PM
  2. [E9] Are you an ISFP and a type nine? Have you experienced this?
    By Generalist in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2017, 10:33 AM
  3. Are you an ISFP and a type nine? Have you experienced this?
    By Generalist in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-13-2017, 06:23 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Why do some type forums have the two middle letters but this one has second and last?
    By mooseantlers in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-07-2012, 03:02 PM
  5. [MBTItm] What other type/s have you previously tested as?
    By Shadow in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 04-09-2009, 11:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO