User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9

  1. #1
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default One person's trash is another's treasure?

    In light of these recent threads that discuss how one views their integration and disintegration points... it struck me that the place we are trying to ascend to is almost a rejection of where we come from. If I am 4 trying to reach the lofty 1 heights, but to a 1 the 4 is a place of despair, does it follow that I will begin to reject my 4ness if I attain these new heights? Or is a strange love child that is freshly formed from this new creation; a marriage to quell the townspeople from uprising in arms?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    I've been fascinated by the relationship between the inner child theory of enneagram that suggests that the core type is a defense mechanism sprung up around some sort of rejection of the native's truest state of being, which is their integration point. And the "missing piece" theory, which states that a direct movement to the integration point is impossible, and that we must instead master the lessons of the disintegration point in order to move forward.

    Taken together, it seems to point to a couple of things. The first is the idea that we might reject the integration point, because we've rejected its traits in ourselves. The second is that growth in terms of the ennegram is not a point to point thing, but more a both, together kind of thing. It might be helpful to think of one's path to growth, then, as being a balance between the core type and the stress point with the integrated point as the fulcrum, rather than integrated<---core<----stress. The following third point is to understand the stress as the antithesis to the defenses of the core, rather than the wholeness of the integrated type.

    I say all that to get to the idea that the process of growth in the enneagram is really about growing closer to your true self, than anything else. The core type is not the true self, the integration point is.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I say all that to get to the idea that the process of growth in the enneagram is really about growing closer to your true self, than anything else. The core type is not the true self, the integration point is.
    Sounds like Queen Jennifer is a possibility after all, in the process of me embracing my inner Eight. Bwa ha ha.



    I've definitely noticed a distinct difference in my personality over the last number of years. Much more willing to engage, fight, dominate if need be. The thing is, it's never comfortable. I don't feel like a core Eight where I want to be in charge; instead, I still feel like an empowered Five, as if I can now translate everything I know into action and make a difference in the world sometimes in direct ways.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sounds like Queen Jennifer is a possibility after all, in the process of me embracing my inner Eight. Bwa ha ha.



    I've definitely noticed a distinct difference in my personality over the last number of years. Much more willing to engage, fight, dominate if need be. The thing is, it's never comfortable. I don't feel like a core Eight where I want to be in charge; instead, I still feel like an empowered Five, as if I can now translate everything I know into action and make a difference in the world sometimes in direct ways.
    Queen Jennyfaire of Pipsyhollow. I like the ring to that.

    Of course, then too, there is the idea of... are you becoming an 8? Or because you were finally able to embrace your true self, your inner confidence and ability to handle life is getting better via side-kick side-car?

    So... what comes first? Our chickens or our egg?

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Queen Jennyfaire of Pipsyhollow. I like the ring to that.

    Of course, then too, there is the idea of... are you becoming an 8? Or because you were finally able to embrace your true self, your inner confidence and ability to handle life is getting better via side-kick side-car?

    So... what comes first? Our chickens or our egg?
    I don't think I'll ever be an Eight, honestly. I'm not an instinctive person. Instinctive people trust their gut first and feel safest going with their gut, as opposed to subjecting it to some kind of processed code first to decide what to do.

    I can simply emulate some instinctive behavior now because I in essence educated myself and thus feel mostly confident in my experience, not necessarily my instincts. To engage something on instinct still often feels like throwing myself off a cliff.

    Unless it was pushing you off the cliff first, of course.
    That, I can do in instinct.
    (Cuz I know your winged rainbow pony will catch you)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Stansmith
    Guest

    Default

    You'll just be a 4 who actually expresses their creativity and talent in the real world, and actually works towards becoming somewhat like the person they envision themselves being.

  7. #7
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I've been fascinated by the relationship between the inner child theory of enneagram that suggests that the core type is a defense mechanism sprung up around some sort of rejection of the native's truest state of being, which is their integration point. And the "missing piece" theory, which states that a direct movement to the integration point is impossible, and that we must instead master the lessons of the disintegration point in order to move forward.
    .
    It's really sad how quickly I want to latch my barnacle bottom onto the whale of the missing piece. I have always been that circle sans tiny pie wedge rolling about looking for my missing pie wedge. And various people enter my life and are all, AH AM YOUR MISSING PIE WEDGE!!! But I taste them and blech raspberry pie, or gah! French Silk or some other horrifying concoction, and away I roll again... All flaky longing and long ago congealed lemon pudding skin.

    I definitely still have the lamentation style, but I reserve it for those lucky few I consider close enough to see that horrifying side of myself.

    Taken together, it seems to point to a couple of things. The first is the idea that we might reject the integration point, because we've rejected its traits in ourselves. The second is that growth in terms of the ennegram is not a point to point thing, but more a both, together kind of thing. It might be helpful to think of one's path to growth, then, as being a balance between the core type and the stress point with the integrated point as the fulcrum, rather than integrated<---core<----stress. The following third point is to understand the stress as the antithesis to the defenses of the core, rather than the wholeness of the integrated type.
    Meh. So in order to become whatever it is that a 1 is, I haz to also become a 2?! Watch out world, I am prepared to unleash the needy, greedy baby side of myself to latch upon the teat of humanity and suck.

    I say all that to get to the idea that the process of growth in the enneagram is really about growing closer to your true self, than anything else. The core type is not the true self, the integration point is.
    D: In this case then let's pretend I am already a 2 which means I am supposed to be a 4 and voila! Success.

  8. #8
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think I'll ever be an Eight, honestly. I'm not an instinctive person. Instinctive people trust their gut first and feel safest going with their gut, as opposed to subjecting it to some kind of processed code first to decide what to do.

    I can simply emulate some instinctive behavior now because I in essence educated myself and thus feel mostly confident in my experience, not necessarily my instincts. To engage something on instinct still often feels like throwing myself off a cliff.

    Unless it was pushing you off the cliff first, of course.
    That, I can do in instinct.
    (Cuz I know your winged rainbow pony will catch you)
    Ohhh, I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.............. Hmm. That explains a lot then. I have good instincts and intuitions but I just don't trust them until after I have assessed them via how I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel about them. And honestly my instincts are usually way more accurate than my emoooooooooooshuuuuuuuuuuns, but here we are. The land of doesn't make sense.

    And my INSTINCT told me not to trust you.
    But my HEART told me to try and love you.
    Fortunately my HEAD make sure I took flying lessons.

    - end scene -

  9. #9
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    You'll just be a 4 who actually expresses their creativity and talent in the real world, and actually works towards becoming somewhat like the person they envision themselves being.
    Oh. Well, how simple is this?

    That explains a lot. So, you're welcome TypoC, you were my guinea pig of crazy. Next stop: the rest of the universe.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-11-2017, 05:49 AM
  2. One man's INTP is another man's rag on a stick...
    By Asterion in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-22-2012, 03:21 PM
  3. [NT] One mans mead is another man's poison
    By tinkerbell in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-07-2010, 11:19 AM
  4. "I" is not one person?
    By nightning in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-29-2008, 03:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO