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  1. #21
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    My shallowness is more lust driven than image driven. Like an eight motivation really more than a six.
    Can you talk some more about this? I am not sure what you mean.

    I think I know, but I wanna make sure I'm on the same page.

    How is this expressed? I guess that's what I'm asking?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  2. #22
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Prompted by @Ginkgo's similar thread on integration points

    Disintegration sounds like it's supposed to be unpleasant, but do you feel a paradoxical liking for your disintegration point? Do you feel tempted to slip into it just because you think it's more effective or easy or attractive than your integration point? Do you tend to like or dislike people who are the same enneagram as your disintegration point?

    Bonus question for 9s: how do you feel about 6s?

    If you disintegrate enough, do you become the next in the disintegration line?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Can you talk some more about this? I am not sure what you mean.

    I think I know, but I wanna make sure I'm on the same page.

    How is this expressed? I guess that's what I'm asking?
    The neurotic traits of eight are excessive lust and/or sadism. My attention to athletic men isn't based in a wish for them to protect me, some are lean and wiry, so its not a six need for security. Its not like I want a body builder to beat people up for me.

    I also don't do it to conform which also could be a phobic mid level six reason.

    No I just care about mens bodies because I like sex. Of course I've read that sx/so 6w7 tend to want a very obviously sexy partner for sexual and social power, and that women of my type tend to use their sexuality to get ahead in life.

    Not like a 3. Threes are supposedly some of the most conventionally attractive women but are genuinely sexually frigid. The porcelain doll. Beauty as a commodity, the sexual urge divorced from the need for relationship or attention.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Right? I know that feeling. My best friend for several years was a 3w4, and I both had moments of clarity where I was especially good at seeing through her mask as well as moments of inadequacy where I would feel like I was her "sidekick" instead of an equal. I guess with it being our disintegration point, we're particularly equipped to be able to see its flaws for what they are, but when we lean too far that way we get trapped in its thinking, too.

    I think that describes it all pretty well ...It's also because we are their integration point. When threes are healthy they are excellent team players for family or social or political group instead of being a complete narcissist.

    So when we show higher levels of health I think it inspires them.

    Like how healthier nines as my integration point inspire me to find inner peace and stop being so reactive and trust the process.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time View Post
    If you disintegrate enough, do you become the next in the disintegration line?
    No because your disintegration point's disintegration point is your integration point. So where I might become genuinely peaceful and trusting at 9, a 3 would just mindlessly consume and be lazy. And where as I act like an image obsessed asshole who needs to win for my own ego instead of something greater out of insecurity at 3 a 9 simply becomes much more focused and productive. A 3 becomes less selfish and finds more heart at 6 but a 9 just becomes mistrustful and unsettled. I can't figure out wh the most peaceful type can go from merely lazy and repressed to paranoid, but it has something to do with 9 being utterly disconnected at low health levels.

    You have a deep relationship to your two points even if they aren't in your triad.

  6. #26
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    No because your disintegration point's disintegration point is your integration point.
    Huh? I am a 5, my disintegration point is 7. 7's disintegration point is 1, that's not my integration point. You're a six, your disintegration point is a three, three's disintegration point is a nine which is your integration point.

    1's disintegration point is a 4, 4's disintegration point is a 2 and 1's integration point is a 7. There is no match here. 8s disintegration point is a 5, 5's disintegration point is a 7, and 8's integration point is a 2. No match again. Looks like your statement only holds true for sixes and this isn't a general principle of the Enneagram theory.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    You have a deep relationship to your two points even if they aren't in your triad.
    Probably true, but a relationship I didn't yet understand. I am rather skeptical that at integration, the individual most closely resembles a healthy version of his integration point. It is an essential component of the Enneagram theory that integration leads a person to become balanced and in tune with various elements of his or her nature represented by other types. So, it would seem that by achieving integration, we'd not only inherit the virtues of our integration point but also that of our alleged disintegration point. It would seem that 6s can obtain the virtues of both 9s and 3s upon integration and 5s will obtain the virtues of that of 7s and 8s. However, if integration leads to the aforementioned sense of balance, it is rather questionable to what extent the integration point matters. If we become better balanced in general, we'd probably obtain the virtues of many possible types, not just the one that's labeled as our integration point.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Huh? I am a 5, my disintegration point is 7. 7's disintegration point is 1, that's not my integration point. You're a six, your disintegration point is a three, three's disintegration point is a nine which is your integration point.

    1's disintegration point is a 4, 4's disintegration point is a 2 and 1's integration point is a 7. There is no match here. 8s disintegration point is a 5, 5's disintegration point is a 7, and 8's integration point is a 2. No match again. Looks like your statement only holds true for sixes and this isn't a general principle of the Enneagram theory.
    It's true for 9 and 3 as well as 6...I am surprised with only nine numbers the other six do not also match. I've clearly only been concerned with these three types and didn't realize the other six didn't fit into neat triads of doom. Maybe its because 369 are multiples of three.





    Probably true, but a relationship I didn't yet understand. I am rather skeptical that at integration, the individual most closely resembles a healthy version of his integration point. It is an essential component of the Enneagram theory that integration leads a person to become balanced and in tune with various elements of his or her nature represented by other types. So, it would seem that by achieving integration, we'd not only inherit the virtues of our integration point but also that of our alleged disintegration point. It would seem that 6s can obtain the virtues of both 9s and 3s upon integration and 5s will obtain the virtues of that of 7s and 8s. However, if integration leads to the aforementioned sense of balance, it is rather questionable to what extent the integration point matters. If we become better balanced in general, we'd probably obtain the virtues of many possible types, not just the one that's labeled as our integration point.
    Possibly but I think the connection to integration and disintegration point are more prominent or apparent issues.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    The clinginess is so horrifying... to go from being self-contained and independent into an oozing puddle of helpless piddle is something I don't wish on anyone.
    I agree, it's hell. I become all the things I detest.

  9. #29
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I don't mind it. I'd say it's a seductive disposition and in times of stress the temptation to run away from it, to escape, is very high and explains a lot of my hobbies, if I'm to be honest. I have to be careful not to fall too in love with the easy relief to stress that escapism confers. It ultimately leads to a diffusion of energy for me and I can get very stuck, which makes it harder for me to solve the problem causing the stress in the first place.



  10. #30
    Junior Member Huhuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Prompted by @Ginkgo's similar thread on integration points

    Disintegration sounds like it's supposed to be unpleasant, but do you feel a paradoxical liking for your disintegration point? Do you feel tempted to slip into it just because you think it's more effective or easy or attractive than your integration point? Do you tend to like or dislike people who are the same enneagram as your disintegration point?
    My disintegration point is type 4 and I have mostly a negative attitude to the whole type. There are just many things that annoy me. First, feelings are not what I'm interested at all, I even disapprove letting feelings affect too much. And too strong expressions of feelings greatly annoy and exhaust me. I also find it very odd and completely unnecessary to be so focused on your image. It goes beyond my understanding how some people spend so much energy to something like that. Also misery and whining and drama are something I try to avoid, things like that annoy me very easily. When I'm disintegrating, I tend to become a bit illogical, moody and depressed by myself and I seriously disapprove and dislike it.

    To be honest, many other types including my own annoy me easily. But there's something in type 4 that makes it different since that's the last type I'd like to be.

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