User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 52

  1. #11
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    18,432

    Default

    I'm trying to change my attitude towards fours. My gut reaction is colored by my experience disintegrating to four, which means that I constantly project onto them. "Would you people calm down?? No one cares about this as much as you do! Take a chill pill and get back to real life!" = my reaction to myself when I'm in that mood, as well as my internal reaction to emotional fours.

    It's almost exactly the same as my instinctive reaction to INFPs, because in both cases, I view their displays of emotion as "overreaction". It's frustrating, because it gets in the way of actually handling INFPs and fours appropriately when they get upset. (I've had an upset INFP 4 friend get even more upset when I didn't react emotionally enough to the same thing she was reacting to! Apparently she bitched me out behind my back for being "cold-hearted". )
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #12
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    I detest 2's with the white hot fury on 1 million twisting suns whirling in a dance club while letting large sweaty sun drops fall everywhere and make burning sounds.

    The clinginess is so horrifying... to go from being self-contained and independent into an oozing puddle of helpless piddle is something I don't wish on anyone.

  3. #13
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ESI Fi
    Posts
    3,182

    Default

    When I think of myself being 3- like I have mixed feelings

    I view it now as immature

    If I feel like I need to get more and more done...I know it's a sign that I need to stop lol

    in that way I've grown out of it.

    Although there are times where it kicks me in the ass

    I don't consciously think I care about other's opinions of me but sometimes I do without realizing it.

    Then I get ashamed of myself and feel shallow

    I hate shallow.

    At that time I'm more apt to feel sick when I see myself do 3 stuffs.

    In the past couple months I have come to better terms with it.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Gross... Just ICK.

    But actual 2s can be cool, as long as they don't try to emotionally manipulate me (which they often do). Sometimes they are just too into themselves & their own emotions & I am too into me, and so there's a clash there. The phony emotion & covert neediness from them can be problematic as well. I tend to associate it heavily with Fe....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    It feels like codependency. As if many of my actions are contingent upon my worth in the eyes of others and my motivations are ulterior. At worst, not only are they ulterior, but they are rationalized as though they are justified.
    Yes..... for me this goes beyond a needy/clingy aspect where I give to others in secret hopes they give me back what I need (ie. telling people I missed them at a social event because I'd like others to feel my absences); it goes into 2 into "seduction" territory.

    ----

    I wrote this on another forum:
    PRIDE: Tend to drop comments into conversation which are kind of braggy. Creating an enviable image - others envy YOU. They dislike you because they envy you, not because you're an aloof snob or some other e4 demeanor problem.

    Letting people know how selfless I am, that I suffer for the greater good. Helping to be liked instead of helping out of principle (difference in e1 or e2 helping e4s might engage in - one is to gain something for yourself & the other is just because it's the right thing to do).

    I associate 4 elitism with 2 disintegration - the place where envy is denied with pride. Rejection of needing anyone out of pride.

    SEDUCTION - Obsession with attracting others. Start to do inappropriate things to attract people, often ones unavailable to you in some way (or people you don't really want). Seeking proof of your own desirability - not being broken & repulsive because of it, but able to attract if so inclined (you just haven't been inclined thus far, haha yeah right). Instead of making people come to you by being so mysterious & cool, you think you can instead manipulate them into your hands (which you justify as being some extension of your deep grasp of how people work emotionally *insert eye roll here* ). People who come to you too easily may be scorned a bit or simply not "counted" as a victory, so that you're in a perpetual cycle of seduction-frustration, spiraling downward into the pit of being totally ugly on the inside, bitterly envying those who get what they want "so easily".

    There's also playing therapist to create some emotional dependency as a way to feel significant to someone or just significant in general because of your "insight".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Later, I figured out that being a 2 is more about pride, rejecting personal needs, understanding interpersonal relations, being a free spirit, and, yes, giving to get--as well as the ability to be unconditional. As I experience the "disintegration" (I quote, because I see many positive 2 qualities as well), it seems to manifest as
    a) not being able to ask for what I need but expecting someone to do something about it anyway;
    b) feeling deprived/cheated, but too proud to ask for help;
    c) feeling entitled to take what I am owed for all I have suffered and endured; and
    d) yes, semi-deliberate, melodramatic emotional manipulation (that whole, "I'm going to start crying to get my way" thing).
    These apply also. I'm not one to use tears as manipulation, but to get out of stuff I have emphasized my own hurt over something. It's the way a 4 can be above the rules & standards everyone else has to live by.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    I tend to think people who are constantly obsessed with their image to others are annoying, which is part of how I figured out I am not a four, because they are image obsessed too in a different way. They think they are their image.

    I know I am not.

    But I disintegrate to three and become obsessed with winning. I actually think it's healthy to act out my shadow, because I am so conscious of how theatrical it is that it's like a form of creativity that comes from darkness.

    I have had a six year relationship with a three and a close friendship with another one. I honestly find them easier to deal with than fives sometimes.

    But other times they are pure unspeakable unadulterated evil. So are eights.

  6. #16
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    When I think of myself being 3- like I have mixed feelings

    I view it now as immature

    If I feel like I need to get more and more done...I know it's a sign that I need to stop lol

    in that way I've grown out of it.

    Although there are times where it kicks me in the ass

    I don't consciously think I care about other's opinions of me but sometimes I do without realizing it.

    Then I get ashamed of myself and feel shallow

    I hate shallow.

    At that time I'm more apt to feel sick when I see myself do 3 stuffs.

    In the past couple months I have come to better terms with it.
    My favorite thing in the world was being called shallow by my three friend because I like athletic men etc...but then she turns around and says she likes being better looking than her mate. She was totally serious. And her motivation was very three, so he would treat her like a queen bee and she could be "the best looking person in the room" (her words not mine).

    My shallowness is more lust driven than image driven. Like an eight motivation really more than a six.

    Any type can be shallow. Nine can be shallow because they refuse to deal with real underlying issues. Four can be almost comically elitist or pretentious.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Fives are supposed to distintegrate to Seven.

    Yeah, it's a blast in some ways (to just stop thinking and let yourself be swept away by so much stimulation and pinging off everything), but it's also exhausting, meaningless in the end, and you feel passive in a sense because you're just the pingpong ball bouncing off all those walls and not in control or directing yourself from inside. Just one huge diversion from life, looking for your next fix.

    Integration point of Eight takes more effort but it's far more empowering to assert yourself in the world after collecting all that knowledge and experience and feel like you have focus for your life.

    Funny that I have a strong Four wing, and it disintegrates to Two. Yeah, anyone who has talked to me about my past experiences knows how I got bent kind of into a Two shape as an easy way to appease those around me and that I feel pressure to devolve into that due to it being an easy way to ingratiate yourself to others (by suppressing the individual self).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    I think I have a lot to learn from 3's talent at self-presentation and efficiency. But in general 3's strategies don't address the over-thinking I do as a 6, so it doesn't offer the same balmy comfort and empowerment that integration does. I tend to like 3s, but I also tend to feel tense around them because I am not as good at presenting myself, and so can easily feel like I am losing a competition when interacting with or around them. However, the more I integrate, the less I feel that.

  9. #19
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think I have a lot to learn from 3's talent at self-presentation and efficiency. But in general 3's strategies don't address the over-thinking I do as a 6, so it doesn't offer the same balmy comfort and empowerment that integration does. I tend to like 3s, but I also tend to feel tense around them because I am not as good at presenting myself, and so can easily feel like I am losing a competition when interacting with or around them. However, the more I integrate, the less I feel that.
    It baffled and later she admitted sometimes intimidated my three friend that I wasn't as impressed with her as everyone else. My ex who is a three said something similar to me. But I did end up competing with both of them in some way.

    I bring something to threes that tells them I am not one of their minions. That is pretty much the secret of getting a three to adore you.

    I still feel inadequate though if I am not centered and at a low point and they start viciously attacking my image. Then I feel the deep conflict and disgust.

    But if I am at a reasonable health level I seem to enjoy them just as much as nines.

    I have had a confirmed nine try to tear me apart, but he was unhealthy and nines disintegrate at six, so it was like two terrified reactive people eating each other's souls, trying to get the other before they get you.

  10. #20
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It baffled and later she admitted sometimes intimidated my three friend that I wasn't as impressed with her as everyone else.[...]
    I still feel inadequate though if I am not centered and at a low point and they start viciously attacking my image. Then I feel the deep conflict and disgust.
    Right? I know that feeling. My best friend for several years was a 3w4, and I both had moments of clarity where I was especially good at seeing through her mask as well as moments of inadequacy where I would feel like I was her "sidekick" instead of an equal. I guess with it being our disintegration point, we're particularly equipped to be able to see its flaws for what they are, but when we lean too far that way we get trapped in its thinking, too.

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] Sucking up. How do you feel about it?
    By SilkRoad in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10-18-2009, 08:02 PM
  2. How do you feel about sports?
    By The_Liquid_Laser in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-15-2009, 06:58 AM
  3. Guys: How do you feel about having a female doctor?
    By Giggly in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-26-2008, 03:26 PM
  4. How do you feel about your nation's corporations?
    By Ezra in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-13-2008, 02:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO