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  1. #1
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Default Enneagram 4....or 9?

    Please help me understand my girlfriend's type. I'm pretty sure she's an INFP, but I'm unsure if she's a well-developed 4 that looks like a 9 or...a 9? I'm recruiting my special army of experts: @OrangeAppled, @Lady X, @Marmotini, @Mane, @prplchknz, @fia, @Tiltyred, @Southern Kross, @Nijntje, @21%, @Thursday

    OK, some things:

    - she's a writer, and she started writing because she wanted to be recognized as special and an artist, when she was younger...she also went through stages where she wanted to be an actress to be recognised for her beauty and sensual energy etc....
    - but now she's more resigned and often wonders if it's worth it all, because "in the end we'll all going to die..." etc, and that maybe it would be easier to have a more secure career as an arts critic etc
    - she really likes the upbeat energy and the motivation, that I bring, and when we met I think I stroke her ego because I really liked her texts. she says I give her strength and a purpose in life..i help her create
    - she's much more balanced than me. when we met i was given "rules" that we couldn't talk or see each other everyday because she really needed her space etc
    - but after just a couple of months it all changed and she became the more dependent one in the couple, i feel
    - she's very physical, she needs hugging and kind words everyday, all the time
    - she doesn't like arguments and is known in her group of friends as the peacemaker
    - she wants a relationship that is calm and peaceful (i'm the opposite, i like drama and once in a while i try to stir shit up in our relationship so that we can discuss what has been under the surface..and start again, more authentically)
    - the few times i've seen her crossed she gets really panicky....starts telling me what to do, has opinions about everything, will be completely all over the place with Te (which then leads me to lose my patience because i'm not in a zen state anymore, so then my Te comes in in full force and I sort shit out)
    - she doesn't have a stable life, she doesn't care about material security and her only wishes are to travel a lot and be in peace with her soulmate...
    - but at the same time she doesn't like change, you absolutely need to give her some time before coming up with a new plan, because it needs to marinate in her mind (she will hardly do something last minute)
    - she doesn't go through emotional roller coasters during the day, she's quite stable emotionally
    - she tells me that she used to crave emotional meaning and suffering in relationships etc in the past (but she's completely not like that now)....she had a million lovers and strange stories etc...can someone's enneagram change with time?
    - she's very attached to her family and their emotional and physical well-being
    - she's very motherly in a way....likes to cook, show you affection, worries about your physical safety and your emotional balance...sometimes she would like to almost disappear because you become the reference point
    - but she's not passive either...very strong willed and has a very clear personality and very strong tastes, in the arts and lifestyle in general
    - she has a big ego and will make fun of you if you don't know the obscure references and writers she does etc
    - in fact she's afraid of disappearing in the other person....that's what scares her in relationships the most (for instance, that's not mine...i'm not sure what my fear is...maybe losing my freedom...)
    - she's the worst ever with cleaning, with organization, with super ego in general. horrid, she's a total id creature roaming around. but she likes being told what to do, being guided, she will do everything if you give her rules etc (which is really stressful for me, because i hate bossing people around)
    - if we're out with friends she almost looks like an ENFP...she's brilliant, smiling and intelligent, but calm and collected...she tries to lure people in using her charms and seduction
    - she's great with social cues and giving people what they want (and helps me in that sense, because i like people but i'm oblivious to what is socially acceptable) but she wasn't always like this and has told me that the social aspect of life used to cause her a lot of pain..not being understood, not being given space as an individual etc...so now she just "learned the rules" and puts on a show when we're out, so to speak
    - doesn't like sports and it not very good with being in contact with the physical space of her body. is trying yoga.
    - spends a lot of time daydreaming, playing out roles, in fantasyland. we have a lot of characters in out relationship, i'm like 5 different things and she 3...and we have fun with that LMAO

    This is what I can think of at the moment. Please ask away if you have any questions. Thanks so much ....I've thought about a 479 tritype for her...or 279?

    PS: I'm also trying to decide if I'm sx/so or sx/sp. I have very balanced wings. If you can get clues from what i wrote, then it would be great, thanks so much

  2. #2
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Have you considered she may be a 6, and that the 9-like qualities are caused by integration?

    I don't know, I'm not really getting the 4 vibe; I'd hate to say it, but I'm just not sensing enough drama. I'm not saying 4-ness creates/requires drama, but usually there is at least a sense of passion or emotional intensity going on below the surface - enough that I would think that a SO would notice. And the stuff you mention that vaguely relates to 4s also corresponds with INFP traits, so that doesn't necessarily reveal much.

    I would say she's a 9, but a developed 6 is a possibility.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #3
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Have you considered she may be a 6, and that the 9-like qualities are caused by integration?

    I don't know, I'm not really getting the 4 vibe; I'd hate to say it, but I'm just not sensing enough drama. I'm not saying 4-ness creates/requires drama, but usually there is at least a sense of passion or emotional intensity going on below the surface - enough that I would think that a SO would notice. And the stuff you mention that vaguely relates to 4s also corresponds with INFP traits, so that doesn't necessarily reveal much.

    I would say she's a 9, but a developed 6 is a possibility.
    ok, at least the INFP part of it all is certain
    thanks. 9 is alright, except there's a lot of stuff on being artistic, unique and "show-off" ie. active stuff...that i dont see how they fit with a 9. i think i just have problems understanding what being a 9 really is.
    why 6? i don't think her core issue is fear or anxiety and i dont even think that she fits in the head-triad. that leads me to wonder whether she belongs to the heart or gut triad, and that's where 9 feels odd to me, because i dont see repressed anger in her. i kinda see her as a victim, someone that hides their pain (she almost looks like an INTP for how little she expresses her emotional side).
    ....cases like this make me wonder about the validity of the enneagram as a typing system i have to say.
    PS: dont worry, i dont get offended if she's not a 4

  4. #4
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    i'm not sure how i got on this panel, but alright let's see what we can find...

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    - she's a writer, and she started writing because she wanted to be recognized as special and an artist, when she was younger...she also went through stages where she wanted to be an actress to be recognised for her beauty and sensual energy etc....
    i am sorry to tell you this, but i think your girlfriend was at some point in her life a... how should i put this delicately... a teenage girl. i don't know if she was honest about it, or if she told you that she's a "transage" for lack of a better word, or if you are open enough to accept someone that used to be a teenager - with all the baggage and dark past that comes with it - but it's very clear that the writing is on the wall, those are clear symptoms of someone who has once suffered from teenagerism. i hope you two can survive that revelation, live with the stigma that might come with it... and who knows, it might even bring you closer.


    putting that behind us, there are quite a few things here scream post-traumatic sx-dom from her, but i think the more important question is.. how long have you being dating? i get the impression that a big chunk of what you describe isn't her but a social facade mixed with some bits of a real person. not that she's being lying, it's just sounds like you guys are still in the lovey dovey phase of wanting to see the best in the other person.

    for the enneagram, you need to be able to see the worst.

  5. #5
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm not sure how i got on this panel, but ok...



    ok, i am sorry to tell you this, but i think your girlfriend was at some point in her life a... how should i put this delicately... a teenage girl. i don't know if she was honest about it, or if she told you that she's a "transage" for lack of a better word, or if you are open enough to accept someone that used to be a teenager - with all the baggage and dark past that comes with it - but it's very clear that the writing is on the wall, those are clear symptoms of someone who has once suffered from teenagerism. i hope you two can survive that revelation, live with the stigma that might come with it... and who knows, it might even bring you closer.


    putting that behind us, there are quite a few things here scream post-traumatic sx-dom from her, but i think the more important question is.. how long have you being dating? i get the impression that a big chunk of what you describe isn't her but a social facade mixed with some bits of a real person. not that she's being lying, it's just sounds like you guys are still in the lovey dovey phase of wanting to see the best in the other person.

    for the enneagram, you need to be able to see the worst.
    lol you were summoned because i needed someone "from my side" and you're an 748 like me. we've been together for a year and a half and live together actually
    i like how blunt you are. i wasn't talking about teenage years, i was talking about her 20s (shes in her 30s now) lol

  6. #6
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post

    OK, some things (that I relate to):

    - a writer, also went through stages where she wanted to be an actress, I am a journalism major at uni, was into acting when I was younger, I liked the escape it gave me, however I didn’t think I had the right ‘look’ for an actress, writing is something I’ve always loved. Did a BA in Visual Arts when younger
    - Sometimes resigned and often wonders if it's worth it all, because "in the end we'll all going to die..." etc, and that maybe it would be easier to have a more secure career as an arts critic etc
    - sometimes very physical, she needs hugging and kind words
    - doesn't like arguments
    - she wants a relationship that is calm and peaceful doesn’t mean I want a boring one though… just have a past with drama and abuse, not ever doing it again
    - the few times i've seen her cross she gets really panicky.... I don’t know how to deal with angry emotions when I actually have to confront someone with them. I tend to get loud and hysterical and kind of one up things
    Me: Oh so you’re sleeping on the couch? FINE WELL, I’M… I’M…. GOING TO TAKE THE CAR KEYS AND SLEEP IN THE CAR.

    - she doesn't have a stable life, she doesn't care about material security and her only wishes are to travel a lot and be in peace
    - used to crave suffering in relationships etc in the past (not like that now)....she had a million lovers and strange stories etc... I just grew the fuck up
    - has a very clear personality and very strong tastes, in the arts and lifestyle in general
    - in fact she's afraid of disappearing in the other person....this used to be a thing until I became more self aware and confident in myself as a person.
    - the worst ever with cleaning, with organization,
    - if we're out with friends she almost looks like an ENFP... With people I know and trust I’m very outgoing. However I am still drained after the interactions.
    - she's great with social cues
    - doesn't like sports is trying yoga. – Yoga worked brilliantly for me. I grew up with gymnastics and Ballet and swimming, I’m just not a track n’ field, ballsports kinda gal
    - spends a lot of time daydreaming,
    I am an INFP 9, tbh, im not sure of my own tritype, but I’ve left the things in that I relate to as both an INFP and a 9 =)

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  7. #7
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    ok, at least the INFP part of it all is certain
    thanks. 9 is alright, except there's a lot of stuff on being artistic, unique and "show-off" ie. active stuff...that i dont see how they fit with a 9. i think i just have problems understanding what being a 9 really is.
    why 6? i don't think her core issue is fear or anxiety and i dont even think that she fits in the head-triad. that leads me to wonder whether she belongs to the heart or gut triad, and that's where 9 feels odd to me, because i dont see repressed anger in her. i kinda see her as a victim, someone that hides their pain (she almost looks like an INTP for how little she expresses her emotional side).
    ....cases like this make me wonder about the validity of the enneagram as a typing system i have to say.
    PS: dont worry, i dont get offended if she's not a 4
    Mostly because 4, 9 and 6 are the most common types for INFPs and I just felt you might have missed the possibility that she was a 6.

    I don't feel like many of the things you mentioned are totally incongruous with 6 traits either. 6s often have a people-person quality (even if they're a introvert - it's just more muted) and make the people in their life the centre of their attention. They're reliable friends and are often taking care of others. They have a grounded quality that puts people at ease. They're also focussed on security in life: trying to retain it, searching for it, or deliberately turning away from it.

    It might just come down to conflict and how she deals with it. You say she hides her pain, but is she hiding it from others or avoiding dealing with it herself? Also I'm kind of confused by you saying this: you've described her in a way that seems more warm, open and personally engaging (even ENFP-like at times) - now you say she's closed off. Could you clarify this aspect?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #8
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    @Nijntje thank you for your answer. you are convincing me she's a 9, possibly 9w1. this is true for her as well: "With people I know and trust I’m very outgoing. However I am still drained after the interactions."

    if she's a 9...what is her path towards personal growth and how can i help her? for instance, should i support her dependency on me or encourage her to be independent? how should i be there for her when she's stressed and panicky? how can i help her stay focused and believe in her worth and work (that is, her writing)?

    @Southern Kross thank you. you're intelligent and you're making the right questions/making me think. true, i often wonder whether there's a real emotional turmoil that she's hiding from me (i have that feeling sometimes) or if i'm trying to see more depth where it doesn't exist. the victim aspect that i sense...i think she is a masochist or martyr, in that she will do things for people maybe to feel accepted. if i had to take a guess, i'd say she's in good contact with herself and she's good at understanding herself, so she would be hiding pain or other personal emotions from other people...i think (i'm not sure, this is still my object of study...after months together lol...in fact she's teased me about this)

    she's actually very private. it took me a long time to put down some barriers and gain some trust. what i wrote about being personally engaging etc...my gf has an aspect of social façade, of superficiality or image-sense that i don't have (is this linked to type 3 maybe?)...so she's got that duality of shielding her privacy with a fake superficiality. and i don't mean it in a bad sense, it doesn't come off as vain or dumb...it's just a pleasant, image-focused, galant, marlene dietrich kind of thing.... but as @Nijntje put it, it also tires her.
    For instance, i'm totally different, i don't put much focus on my image, but i'm genuinely drawn to people, and more authentic. so i may commit social faux-pas here and then, but i enjoy being out more and in the end i'm more sociable.
    Do you need more info @Southern Kross ?

    if i had to think about flaws @Mane i'd say that she can very quite selfish, ego-driven, self-focused, non-empathic... this is more or less it. maybe i'm being contradictory to what i said before, that she likes to "give", but this is the truth..both things are true.
    like...i have to shout, to get angry sometimes for her to acknowledge how i'm feeling and what she's not giving me. because she will often choose calm and peace over authenticity and emotion. for instance, i've told her again and again that my first love-language are words, not touch, and that it would be nice if she'd say nice things or do romantic things here and then....but she doesn't care. she's a writer, but she never uses words as a love-language (she says it's fake). so she won't compromise one bit and so if i want her to do or say something romantic then i have to get angry and tell her i'm not feeling loved etc and THEN she'll try something. this is frustrating. she's told me that for her love is peace, and walking side by side. but for me love is passion, and facing each other.

  9. #9
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    "she's told me that for her love is peace, and walking side by side. but for me love is passion, and facing each other."

    This sounds like me and my ENFP. She's probably an INFP, 9. But not the most healthy. Then again, who is?
    I N V I C T U S

  10. #10
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    "she's told me that for her love is peace, and walking side by side. but for me love is passion, and facing each other."

    This sounds like me and my ENFP. She's probably an INFP, 9. But not the most healthy. Then again, who is?
    care to develop...why you dont think she's healthy?
    your case is particularly interesting, if you're with an ENFP. please tell me your story

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