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Enneagram 4....or 9?

pinkgraffiti

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I was reading about the Freudian theory of the enneagram. Here goes the major scheme:

9w1 Ego-Superego
1w9 Superego-Ego
1w2 Double Superego
2w1 Double Superego
2w3 Superego-Id
3w2 Id-Superego
3w4 Id-Ego
4w3 Ego-Id
4w5 Double Ego
5w4 Double Ego
5w6 Ego-Superego
6w5 Superego-Ego
6w7 Superego-Id
7w6 Id-Superego
7w8 Double Id
8w7 Double Id
8w9 Id-Ego
9w8 Ego-Id

If this theory is correct (can you please tell me if it makes sense to you personally), then she can't be a 9w1 like I thought, because she's definitely a mix of Ego and Id, there's no Super-Ego in her (she externalizes the super-ego, sends it to me, which i hate because i don't want that role)

Thus, I'm left with these types:
3w4 - can't be a 3
4w3
8w9 - i don't see anything 8 about her
9w8 - i don't see anything 8 about her

But then again, I also read Naranjo's character and neurosis and a lot of things fit with type 9:
1. Relaxation in posture and movement.
2. Love of Physical Comfort - could be related to Sp
3. Slow Reaction
4. Love of Eating
5. Socialization of Eating
6. Pleasure in Digestion
7. Love of Polite Ceremony
8. Sociophilia
9. Indiscriminate Amiability

10. Greed for Affection and Approval
11. Orientation to People
12. Evenness of Emotional Flow
13. Tolerance
14. Complacency
15. Deep Sleep
16. The Untempered Characteristic
17. Smooth, Easy Communications of Feeling, Extraversion of Viscerotonia
18. Relaxation and Sociophilia under Alcohol.
19. Need of people when Troubled - completely false, she sorts her problems alone
20. Orientation toward Childhood and Family Relationships. - yes, fixation in childhood and innocence, fixation in the oniric world
 

pinkgraffiti

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Why not get her to try this test:
Professional Enneagram & Tritype® Test - http://www.enneagram.net/tests/index.html
(complete version-includes Tritype!)

I can't, she refuses to take tests because she thinks that people are all special and can't be categorised. I tried a test one time, but she didn't finish it because she complained that the questions were too shallow and could not represent her complexity.
When I told her about the enneagram, she said she identified with the stereotype of the 4 (but that was a very superficial conversation anyway)
 

pinkgraffiti

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[MENTION=13377]pinkgraffiti[/MENTION] - i don't suppose your GF happens to have a bit of an exhibitonist side (not necesserly implicitly sexual as much as enjoying an audience)?

oh absolutely. if we're having a romantic moment she might position herself in front of a mirror and look at how she appears rather than be in the moment. often when living things she will unfold into 2 people and watch herself experience things as she experiences them. i've read some stuff on how this is connected to masochism but i dont know how it fits the enneagram or MBTI theories. she does the same to me...if i had a reaction that she liked, she might ask me to repeat it, because she gets pleasure how of that. or when thinking about the past she will get excited about recreating her reactions to things, or other people's etc.

PS: with other people she likes having an audience. being appreciated for her intelligence, or beauty etc. she likes compliments and having her ego stroked. pays a lot of attention to how she's dressed and the impact she'll have on other people.
 

Nijntje

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I can't, she refuses to take tests because she thinks that people are all special and can't be categorised. I tried a test one time, but she didn't finish it because she complained that the questions were too shallow and could not represent her complexity.
When I told her about the enneagram, she said she identified with the stereotype of the 4 (but that was a very superficial conversation anyway)

I once had an argument with an INTP friend about MBTI and typing and stuff, and i was arguing that you can't just go looking for 'x' type as a mate because although they may have some characteristics of 'x' type, their upbringing, education, country of origin, mental well being, religiosity and a slew of other factors made it little more than saying 'oh i want to date an aquarius' in terms of what they would ACTUALLY be like.

His argument was that my argument was SOOOO INFP.

I wanted to kick him in the face.
 

PeaceBaby

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I can't, she refuses to take tests because she thinks that people are all special and can't be categorised. I tried a test one time, but she didn't finish it because she complained that the questions were too shallow and could not represent her complexity.
When I told her about the enneagram, she said she identified with the stereotype of the 4 (but that was a very superficial conversation anyway)

As an INFP, she should take to the enneagram like a fish to water. Perhaps if you show her the short tritype descriptions she might find herself in one of them. Pique her curiosity more.

There are things up in your description that sound 9-ish and others that sound 4-ish, but as a 9 I'm not getting a full 9 vibe, something seems off about it. Maybe it's because her characteristics are written through your lens? Not sure.
 
S

Society

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i've read some stuff on how this is connected to masochism but i dont know how it fits the enneagram or MBTI theories.

it fits into the stereotype of the sx/so instinctual variant very well, which can in turn allow a more accurate enneagram typing.

there are some pretty good enneagram-instinctual-variant combo descriptions out there, though google is failing me at the moment for finding them.
 

pinkgraffiti

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As an INFP, she should take to the enneagram like a fish to water. Perhaps if you show her the short tritype descriptions she might find herself in one of them. Pique her curiosity more.

There are things up in your description that sound 9-ish and others that sound 4-ish, but as a 9 I'm not getting a full 9 vibe, something seems off about it. Maybe it's because her characteristics are written through your lens? Not sure.

yes, i feel like shit, because i'm trying my best to represent her, but if we're not going anywhere it's because i'm not being a good messenger here. i'm going to try and talk to her about this (i haven't tried much because I don't want her to think that she's just a stereotype for me, and that i don't understand her)
 

PeaceBaby

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yes, i feel like shit, because i'm trying my best to represent her, but if we're not going anywhere it's because i'm not being a good messenger here. i'm going to try and talk to her about this (i haven't tried much because I don't want her to think that she's just a stereotype for me, and that i don't understand her)

Oh, don't feel bad! :hug: It's a process, I am sure we'll be able to narrow it down. If she would take the test it would be easier ... maybe she'd be interested to learn about instincts too, as they represent the intensity of love languages in a way. If you represent this as something that will help you connect with her more deeply or completely, do you think that approach would be useful?
 

Lady_X

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I think she's 4w3 sx/so with 9 in her tritype

I'm a 729 in that order and I relate a lot to the 9 things listed.
I definitely think she's sx
 

pinkgraffiti

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I think she's 4w3 sx/so with 9 in her tritype

I'm a 729 in that order and I relate a lot to the 9 things listed.
I definitely think she's sx

i agree with sx but i dont with so. her sp is pretty strong, stronger than mine.

- she won't leave the house if it's a bit cold of rainy (i dont give a shit)
- she's the one that worries about the health of what we eat and likes to go shopping for food everyday (i just stock the house every week)
- she's normally the one who cooks
- she's very sensitive to her body sensations (si?) and has a very sensitive stomach, is always complaining about her sensations etc
- she always wants to be in the house, while often i want to get out
- if we're out she will get tired after 1 hour or 2. she's very balanced and cannot be outside for a long time without complaining that she needs to rest
- she's always the one worrying about "stupid" things like "it's too bright let's close the shutters" or "close that window or we'll get sick" or "we are not drinking enough water, it's important to be hydrated" or "don't go out without taking a scarf or you'll get a cold"
- she's also the one who's more into the aesthetics of the house...i dont give a shit
- interestingly, she has no concerns over money

If it wasn't for me, i think we would almost never leave the house. i like to see my friends more often than she does...she'll meet like 1 person once a week, and that's it. she's totally fine just being the 2 of us.
 
S

Society

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i agree with sx but i dont with so. her sp is pretty strong, stronger than mine.

...that's a big problem in judging IVs (Instinctual Variants) in an SO.
to make the point - let's attach percentage attributes
(to judge "stronger" and "weaker"):

let's say i'm:
sx 80%
so 40%
sp 30%

i can say that my ex is:
sx < 80% (weaker than mine)
so > 40% (stronger than mine)
sp > 30% (stronger than mine)

within this range, she can be almost anything - even a slightly more balanced sx/so who's sp i found noticeable because it was stronger than mine - she appears sp subjectively from my perspective.

what you need to go by instead is the aspects at which the IV conflict with each other, and where her attention was in those times - which IVs is she willing to sacrifice in favor of which.
 

pinkgraffiti

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ok, i'm going to be more blunt now: i'm pretty certain she's an Sp-dom. at most, she might be Sx/Sp, but i highly doubt it, because when i first met her my Sx-dom aggression scared her.
Let's see, i'm going to highlight what i think is right from the enneagram website descriptions:

Self Preservation Instinct
People who have this as their dominant instinct are preoccupied with the safety, comfort, health, energy, and well-being of the physical body.(...) Self-Pres types tend to be more grounded, practical, serious, and introverted than the other two instinctual types. They might have active social lives and a satisfying intimate relationship, but if they feel that their self-preservation needs are not being met, still tend not to be happy or at ease. In their primary relationships, these people are "nesters"—they seek domestic tranquility and security with a stable, reliable partner.

Sexual (aka "Attraction") Instinct
The key element in Sexual types is an intense drive for stimulation and a constant awareness of the "chemistry" between themselves and others. Sexual types are immediately aware of the attraction, or lack thereof, between themselves and other people. The sexual type is constantly moving toward that sense of intense stimulation and juicy energy in their relationships and in their activities. They are the most "energized" of the three instinctual types, and tend to be more aggressive, competitive, charged, and emotionally intense than the Self-Pres or Social types. Sexual types need to have intense energetic charge in their primary relationships or else they remain unsatisfied. They enjoy being intensely involved—even merged—with others, and can become disenchanted with partners who are unable to meet their need for intense energetic union. Losing yourself in a "fusion" of being is the ideal here, and Sexual types are always looking for this state with others and with stimulating objects in their world.

Social (aka "Adaptive") Instinct
Social types adapt themselves to serve the needs of the social situation they find themselves in. Thus, Social types are highly aware of other people, whether they are in intimate situations or in groups. They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them. Moreover, Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection: they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world. Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.
 

pinkgraffiti

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The 9 types test gave her this (not a good test):

Type Punctuation
1 2
2 4
3 5
4 5
5 3
6 5
7 5
8 3
9 4

EDIT:
OK, so we talked a lot about this, I showed her the descriptions etc. She jumped when she read the description of the 4.
I said "wait....read the 9 as well"... She was like "yes this too, but not completely. I dont depend on others that much; but I'm definitely a 4. Have you never noticed!? I keep all my feelings inside, there's a lot of drama in me, but it's interior, I keep it hidden. Yes, I agree that I have sometimes been driven by jealousy..."


4w3 description
Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills. When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse[of course not ahahah], then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.

9w1 description
Tend to have been "model children." Instinctively worked to please their parents by being virtuous, orderly, and little trouble. When awakened, they have great moral authority plus good-hearted peacemaking tendencies. Often have a sense of mission, public or private, that involves working hard for the welfare of everyone they are committed to. Principled expression of love. Desire to contribute, do little harm. May be well-liked, modest, endearing, gentle yet firm. Some have great grace and composure with bursts of spontaneity and sweetness. Elegant simplicity. When entranced, they tend to be self-neglectful. May go passively dead and operate from a dubious, fractured morality. Dutiful to what they shouldn't be. Play the good child, disappear into contexts, settle for being overlooked or just partly recognized. Passive tolerance of absurd or damaging situations. One-sided relationships where the Nine gives too much [no, she has the opposite problem: can be very self-centered]. Rationalize, minimize, tell themselves they had a great childhood, everything's fine. Placid numbness creeps over them. Intolerance of their own emotions. Gradually deaden their soul.
(http://theenneagram.blogspot.pt)
 

Southern Kross

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Wait. Is there a difference between the green and red?
 

pinkgraffiti

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Wait. Is there a difference between the green and red?

Ahah yes! sorry....

Green - correct
Red - wrong
Bold Green - absolutely right
Bold Red - absolutely the opposite
Blue - my comments
 

Tiltyred

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I would agree with 479.
 

pinkgraffiti

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I don't know what to say anymore. I feel more confused now than when I started this thread....I asked her to retake a test (Similar Minds) and these were the results:

Type 2 Helpfulness |||||| 26%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||||| 54%

Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||| 50%
Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||| 46%
Type 7 Adventurousnes |||||||||||| 42%

Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||| 54%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||||| 62%
Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||| 66%

type score type behavior motivation
3 20 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
1 16 I must be perfect and good to survive.
9 15 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
4 13 I must be unique/different to survive.
8 13 I must be strong and in control to survive.
5 12 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
6 11 I must be secure and safe to survive.
7 10 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
2 6 I must be helpful and caring to survive.
 

Lady_X

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so...did she read type 3w4?

and as you know the test aren't always right...maybe 4w3 fits better

what about instinctual variants? did she take that one yet?
 
S

Stansmith

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The way you describe her sounds like a 9 with a 4-fix and a connection to 3. Alot of the 4 stuff just sounds like Fi and Introverted-ness.
 
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