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  1. #11
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    I say unhealthy as in you have to tell her everything, with cleaning and the like. I like to be guided and dominated in a fashion, but there is an undeniable independent and iron-handed maturity to me. As for me and the ENFP, it was a couple of years ago, and the story was one of boy and girl have matching libidos (though mine was stronger) and thought that sustenance enough until what was no longer had flavor. We rushed into it, genitals first.
    I N V I C T U S

  2. #12
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Okay just now had time to read the super long op.

    And I'm no expert but my guess would be 9w1 sx/so

    Second guess would be 4w3
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #13
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    Okay just now had time to read the super long op.

    And I'm no expert but my guess would be 9w1 sx/so

    Second guess would be 4w3
    that's funny because i see her as sp/sx. maybe i wasn't very good on expressing the sp in her. but did you read the second bit of text as well?

  4. #14
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i get the impression that a big chunk of what you describe isn't her but a social facade mixed with some bits of a real person. not that she's being lying, it's just sounds like you guys are still in the lovey dovey phase of wanting to see the best in the other person.
    For some reason I got this feeling as well. I can't really describe it, but I can't help but feel that there is more to this.

    From a 4's perspective, I can sort of identify with her. Still, like @Southern Kross said, there seems to be something lacking -- like that love of self-destructive drama and wild emotional rides. I enjoy those -- even when they are horrible. Yes, I like calm and peace in the relationship, but at the core of stuff I like to feel that agony sometimes.

    Another thing that might be worth mentioning is how she is afraid of "disappearing into another person". For me, this is NEVER an issue, because I have an extremely strong sense of self. Fours are self-obsessed, and they know it, so they even try to tone it down. Nines on the other hand tend to struggle with boundaries and identity.

    She could be a 4w3 -- but for some reason I sense a kind of ridigity that seems uncharacteristic. I would think 4w3s will be a bit smoother, for the lack of a better word. They will be charming, and will want to charm their partner. Not really sure how it manifests in INFPs though.

    My boyfriend is INFP 9w1, and I know he secretly wants to be recognized, perhaps partially because he is not that aware of his own self so maybe external validation is important. He hates being controlled, and at times he can be a bit 4-ish in his moods, and can be very artsy -- but after years I've learned to recognize the difference. He doesn't secretly love the intensity for its own sake. He likes the intensity when it leads to something else, like emotional bonding. Acceptance is important to him. I'm all Fe and acceptance is important as well, but deep down, I've never felt like I belong and I fantasize about the day when it all comes out and the world finally knows and shuns me for it. That sounds extremely terrible, but, my, isn't it delicious.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  5. #15
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Another thing that might be worth mentioning is how she is afraid of "disappearing into another person". For me, this is NEVER an issue, because I have an extremely strong sense of self. Fours are self-obsessed, and they know it, so they even try to tone it down. Nines on the other hand tend to struggle with boundaries and identity.
    I was going to say this exact same thing (the bolded part practically word for word) but wasn't sure if I was off-base or maybe it was just me. I'm glad someone else said it.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #16
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    May come back & weigh in more later, but you haven't ruled out INFJ either, have you?

    This strikes me as more Fe, which she would have developed as she got older:

    - if we're out with friends she almost looks like an ENFP...she's brilliant, smiling and intelligent, but calm and collected...she tries to lure people in using her charms and seduction
    - she's great with social cues and giving people what they want (and helps me in that sense, because i like people but i'm oblivious to what is socially acceptable) but she wasn't always like this and has told me that the social aspect of life used to cause her a lot of pain..not being understood, not being given space as an individual etc...so now she just "learned the rules" and puts on a show when we're out, so to speak
    INFPs can be charming, but it's more Ne wackiness. We rarely look "smooth" or are good enough with social cues to really play the game. It's more like we can be magnetic or endearing rather than skilled at social protocol.

    Giving you "rules" at the beginning of the relationship is very bizarre to me, as is wanting to be given direction in any way (I don't like being bossed around) or not liking change (although perhaps this is in comparison to a Pe-dom). Wanting calm/peace/security in a relationship is also weird to me, as far as what I idealize.

    I find INFJs more adverse to conflict in close relationships, whereas INFPs tend to be more adverse to it with strangers. I'm not entirely sure the reason for it... But this & being better with social graces might be a 6 or 9 thing too.

    Come to think of it, this sounds a lot like my INFP e9 friend. She says she dislikes change & is definitely more into stability & is more socially gracious than me.


    EDIT: To chime in, I DO worry about losing my identity in a relationship, but not "disappearing" into the person. I worry more about losing freedom to be myself, not actually losing myself, if that makes the distinction clear.... I sort of related this to the 5 wing though, and it's a mental rationalization I use for pushing people away. I feel "suffocated" easily.

    This hits the nail on the head for me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Naranjo on e5
    Fear of engulfment

    The fear and avoidance of being “swallowed up by others” might be a corollary of the
    avoidance of relationships, yet not only this, for it is also the expression of a half-conscious
    perception of one’s own suppressed need to relate, and (as Fairbairn has emphasized) a fear
    of potential dependency. The great sensitivity to interference and interruption of ennea-type V
    individuals is not only the expression of a detached attitude, but also a function of the
    person’s proneness to interrupt herself in the face of external demands and perceived needs of
    others. In other words, a great sensitivity to interference goes hand-in hand with an over-
    docility, in virtue of which the individual interferes all too easily with her own spontaneity,
    with her preferences, and with acting in a way coherent with her needs in the presence of
    others. Also, in light of this over-docility (understandable as a by-product of a strong repressed
    love need) we can understand the particular emphasis in aloneness in ennea-type V. To the
    extent that the relationship entails alienation from one’s own preferences and authentic
    expression there arises an implicit stress and the need to recover from it: a need to find oneself
    again in aloneness.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #17
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    @21% @Mane It's kinda starting to worry me that you both think I might have a superficial knowledge of her, I'll have to think about that. We spend a lot of time together (both working at home now) and have a very good communication, but it is true that she's difficult to understand, in that she's very private, and anytime you try to "drill" inside, she deflects..by laughing, playing games, or being ironic. She pretends to be a simple person, but I think she's much more complex. She's told me that she still feels vulnerable or is afraid or embarrassed to show everything, that she's changed a lot in the recent past, and opened up a lot, but there are still things she's working on.

    @Mane When we met she told me a lot about all the self-destructive drama that she searched for when she was younger, all these idealized relationships .. she told me she used to put people on pedestals and then spend most of the time suffering, being alone etc. She was also involved in some sado-maso groups, etc. She's had short-term relationships because she was afraid of people trying to control her, or change her, or that she would lose her individuality. She thought that people are in LTRs because they are afraid of death and being alone, and she wanted to be different, do it her own way.

    I didn't see all these personal developments, so I can't understand how she got here now. In her writings she often talks about her childhood, and there I get a big sense of a 7…someone who desires freedom, to see the world, explore, leave their small family space. I also sense a 4…someone who laments that no one understands her, no one can see that she's special, someone who suffers in silence in a world she didn't choose. Someone who in her 20s was extremely romantic and masochistic, suffered from relationships (she still gets pleasure out of suffering, but focused on other things), saw the poetry in the mundane etc.

    @OrangeAppled I have an inbuilt Fe sensor….it comes off when someone kinda insults my principles etc. And one of the reasons I like my girlfriend so much is that I never felt that with her, actually I feel supported and understood. My gf told me she used to suffer a lot for a lack of knowledge of social cues, of other people's invasions of her personal space, but it was something that she learned recently (last 5 years) as a way to surf society so that then she can be left alone, kind of a way to find inner/outer balance: "if you give people what they want, tell them what they want to hear, then they leave you alone to be yourself"

    The rules bit. Good question. She doesn't boss me around, it's more like passive aggression. She was the one who asked me to be with her, but at the same time she was being back and forth with it (Sp/Sx push-pull!?) and told me: "ok, I want us to be together, but we won't be like "normal" people, we will establish our own rules. I need my privacy so we can't see or call each other everyday…and you can't ask what I did during the day or where I'm going and who I'm seeing, because you don't control me." This concern has basically changed 180º with time. Now she's super sure I'm her soulmate and doesn't want drama, just wants to chill (in contrast, I was excited in the beginning but now I sometimes wonder if "this is it", maybe it's connected to being 7 or Ne-dom).

    @Thursday @Nijntje Can a 4's point of growth be a 9? That's the impression I get, but it doesn't make sense theoretically, right? Or can it be that she's a 9 but an unhealthy one? I would like to understand what her type is, so that I understand how she can grow and how I can help her grow. Maybe it's not my business, but if I'm the closest person to her in the world and we are building a life together, I'd like to be the best assistant possible.

    I hope I'm a bit more clear now? Thank you all so much for helping me out, really

  8. #18
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    i tend to agree with @21% that if she is a 4 then she's probably a 4w3 - that could explain why she exhibits Fe-like motivations (the need to accommodate and adapt to the expectations around her) without actually having any developed Fe (assuming she isn't an INFJ). 4w3s can be melodramatic internally but aren't big on dramatic displays as much as they are embarrassed by it.


  9. #19
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    EDIT: To chime in, I DO worry about losing my identity in a relationship, but not "disappearing" into the person. I worry more about losing freedom to be myself, not actually losing myself, if that makes the distinction clear.... I sort of related this to the 5 wing though, and it's a mental rationalization I use for pushing people away. I feel "suffocated" easily.
    Yeah, this is why I was thinking she could potentially be a 6w5.

    Anyway, it's just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    It's kinda starting to worry me that you both think I might have a superficial knowledge of her, I'll have to think about that. We spend a lot of time together (both working at home now) and have a very good communication, but it is true that she's difficult to understand, in that she's very private, and anytime you try to "drill" inside, she deflects..by laughing, playing games, or being ironic. She pretends to be a simple person, but I think she's much more complex. She's told me that she still feels vulnerable or is afraid or embarrassed to show everything, that she's changed a lot in the recent past, and opened up a lot, but there are still things she's working on.
    Yeah, I think it can be hard to describe the underlying layers of an INFP. You might get a vibe about it, but the information you're getting is second hand in a sense. There's a description I read about INFPs the other day (I posted it in my blog, so I repost it here):

    "To others the INFP will often seem like a gentle enigma, often displaying their reactions to their feelings, rather than their feelings."

    I thought that was rather insightful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i tend to agree with 21%that if she is a 4 then she's probably a 4w3 - that could explain why she exhibits Fe-like motivations (the need to accommodate and adapt to the expectations around her) without actually having any developed Fe (assuming she isn't an INFJ). 4w3s can be melodramatic internally but aren't big on dramatic displays as much as they are embarrassed by it.
    Yeah, but she could just be a Social dom. In fact, a lot of the OP description could be down to instinctual variant stacking.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah, but she could just be a Social dom. In fact, a lot of the OP description could be down to instinctual variant stacking.
    there's a lack of data but i got the impression she's an sx/so actually. she seems to thrive on intensity with just a bit of a traumatized "i killed my last 50 girlfriends with my drama" touch, where sp's don't need rules for self protection (they just do it), she is almost trying to fake it (though i could be projecting here a bit since its something i recognize that i do). she also seems big on aspiring towards a bubble with her SO - putting the rest of the world outside of it - the fantasy to just travel around without roots or social consequences, the later i noticed to be common with sx>so's. @pinkgraffiti - i don't suppose your GF happens to have a bit of an exhibitonist side (not necesserly implicitly sexual as much as enjoying an audience)?

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