• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

The Hardest Type to be in The Enneagram

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
MBTI Type
SeFi
Enneagram
4
[MENTION=13589]Mal12345[/MENTION] [MENTION=21197]Boogie man[/MENTION] Being a 4 doesn't mean you will be depressed. Further, being depressed (i.e. mentally ill) skews personality from the baseline of who a person is, and is thus more likely to mistype. Due to what 4's are about, a depressed person has a higher chance of mistyping as a 4.

I don't recall seeing any explicit studies on the association of enneagram types and mental illnesses, but I would be surprised if there were any statistically relevant correlations. Further, if it would be reliably possible to tease apart the warped thinking associated with mental illnesses and core personality.

I could see 4's have a higher grouping of individuals with depression. Depression as a guiding tool for determining one's enneagram type however, is not useful and shouldn't be used, so it really isn't a factor. Most of the negative health levels for all enneagram types suggest suffering from depression, and as such depression when it is used in enneagram is broad and not very type specific.

Ultimately, this is a rather wasteful discussion to try and draw explicit lines between mental illnesses and enneagram or mbti types since it's factually a moot/broad/murky point, and it largely only increases negative stereotypes.

On a personal note, I am a 4 and also traumatized. In the heart of severe trauma, I first encountered the enneagram. My eye went straight to 4 the minute I saw the back of the book.... and the short descriptions. But then, as I read more, I ended up mistyping at 5. Because my inner landscape felt "arid" due to trauma and I felt disconnected from my body and useless due to severe chronic illness that almost killed me and stripped me of my professional singing voice & music career I'd been building up. Left me speaking in a whisper and dependent on medications.

I realized 12 years later when I came back to enneagram that I wasn't a 5, and then mistyped at 3 and 8 because despite chronic illness I ended up singing lead through my whisper, reclaiming myself, working my ass off, surviving in a dangerous city etc.

I'm a 4.. I have typed that way for 3 years now and for whatever it's worth it has been verified by several experts, some of whom have studied for up to 50 years. Of course nobody is the ultimate expert, but there has literally been zero disagreement among them.

Yet I couldn't relate to the depressive, whiny descriptions of 4. I am a 4w3, proactive about claiming my identity, overcoming hardship. Triple reactive fists. The world can't take me away from me.

ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either.

Real depression or trauma can feel more like a 5 or 9 description.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
"Being a 4 doesn't mean you will be depressed." I didn't say that.

Ever heard of levels of development?

If you don't like the enneagram because of "stereotypes," then create a thread about enneagram stereotypes and leave true critical thinkers alone.

I was writing enneagram articles before most of you were born. I could cite myself in an enneagram journal article if I wanted to.
Type 4 is linked to depression at level 7.
Type 7 is linked to depression at a lower stage - at level 9.
But the type most notorious for being depressed is the 4, and depression is just one of many reasons for it being the hardest type to be.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
"ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either."

?????

Nobody said anything about whining lazy sadsacks (what an old term) until you came along.
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
MBTI Type
SeFi
Enneagram
4
"ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either."

?????

Nobody said anything about whining lazy sadsacks (what an old term) until you came along.
Oh, whoops, I went ahead and thought for myself, came up with my own phrase. A crime! :mad::blush::huh:
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Marilyn Manson 4w5
Marilyn Manson Shows His Vulnerable Side

Again, Manson is probably having a little fun with us, but at least his closing statement is true, particularly in the context of the last year. This past Christmas eve, burlesque/fetish queen Dita Von Teese, whom Manson had married the previous December after a six-year relationship, filed for divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. In subsequent interviews, Von Teese pointed to Manson's alleged infidelities, substance abuse and demons (inner, not pets). He blamed depression and a basic reluctance to change his ways.

That's where we first met, but that wasn't our bond," Manson says of Wood. In various interviews, he has described her as a creative sounding board during the making of "Eat Me, Drink Me" and a much-needed friend as he battled severe depression that at times left him almost catatonic. In Rolling Stone, Manson cited Wood's gesture of solidarity and devotion when "she picked up a butcher's knife and said, 'Here, you can stab me.' When someone was willing to drown with me, I really didn't want to drown anymore."
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Capture_zpshzalh3n1.jpg
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
MBTI Type
SeFi
Enneagram
4
Marilyn Manson 4w5
Marilyn Manson Shows His Vulnerable Side

Again, Manson is probably having a little fun with us, but at least his closing statement is true, particularly in the context of the last year. This past Christmas eve, burlesque/fetish queen Dita Von Teese, whom Manson had married the previous December after a six-year relationship, filed for divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. In subsequent interviews, Von Teese pointed to Manson's alleged infidelities, substance abuse and demons (inner, not pets). He blamed depression and a basic reluctance to change his ways.

That's where we first met, but that wasn't our bond," Manson says of Wood. In various interviews, he has described her as a creative sounding board during the making of "Eat Me, Drink Me" and a much-needed friend as he battled severe depression that at times left him almost catatonic. In Rolling Stone, Manson cited Wood's gesture of solidarity and devotion when "she picked up a butcher's knife and said, 'Here, you can stab me.' When someone was willing to drown with me, I really didn't want to drown anymore."

Rockstars who died from drug overdoses at age 27 and took drugs because of depression:

Jimi Hendrix (9w8)
Janis Joplin (not sure of her type)
Amy Winehouse (7w6)
Kurt Cobain

Robert Plant had depression too.. a 7w8.
Trent Reznor had depression.. a 5w4.

And on and on. So what is your point?


I never said Marilyn Manson never had depression. He is hard working, motivated, and depression is not central to his personality any more than it is for any of these other rockstars.
 

Boogie man

Da Voodoo
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
145
MBTI Type
TiSe
Enneagram
9
and leave true critical thinkers alone.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I urge you to not take things for granted. I stress for a deeper understanding of the Enneagram, without the cheap use of disorders.
Neither your age nor your resources prove anything. You are using them as nothing but a shield.

Think. Dare to go further.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
MBTI Type
SeFi
Enneagram
4
Marilyn Manson Fighting Depression → ������ Lifestyle

- - - Updated - - -

Marilyn Mason 4w5
Marilyn Manson: ‘I created a fake world because I didn’t like the one I was living in’ | Music | The Guardian
"It’s just unclear what sort of trouble. He had death threats after Columbine, and severe depression after the ending of his relationships, and suicidal thoughts."

NOBODY SAID THAT MANSON DIDN'T HAVE DEPRESSION. Do you even know how the fuck to read? I just posted a list of other rockstars of other types including 5, 9 and 7 who suffered from depression. What of them? What is your point
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Capture_zpsjbhv0sub.jpg


- - - Updated - - -

Here I am hiding.
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
MBTI Type
SeFi
Enneagram
4
Marilyn Manson 4w5
Marilyn Manson Shows His Vulnerable Side

Again, Manson is probably having a little fun with us, but at least his closing statement is true, particularly in the context of the last year. This past Christmas eve, burlesque/fetish queen Dita Von Teese, whom Manson had married the previous December after a six-year relationship, filed for divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. In subsequent interviews, Von Teese pointed to Manson's alleged infidelities, substance abuse and demons (inner, not pets). He blamed depression and a basic reluctance to change his ways.

That's where we first met, but that wasn't our bond," Manson says of Wood. In various interviews, he has described her as a creative sounding board during the making of "Eat Me, Drink Me" and a much-needed friend as he battled severe depression that at times left him almost catatonic. In Rolling Stone, Manson cited Wood's gesture of solidarity and devotion when "she picked up a butcher's knife and said, 'Here, you can stab me.' When someone was willing to drown with me, I really didn't want to drown anymore."

This has nothing to do with his type. I could post similar articles about Hendrix, Joplin, Winehouse, Plant etc. Brittney Spears went crazy and she's no 4. In fact I am very close with people who are in the music business and it is a depressing as fuck business. Very few people make it through that business without developing depression. Your arguments are completely pointless and you just posted several posts about Manson which are totally off topic and not proving anything.

I think [MENTION=21197]Boogie man[/MENTION] is aiming a bit too high with suggesting that you learn critical thinking. It would help if you learned how to read in the first place or to think at all. You can move on to 'critical' later.
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Why is there an argument on the guy? It's not like the guy gave an impression of someone who cared for the average individual.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Rockstars who died from drug overdoses at age 27 and took drugs because of depression:

Jimi Hendrix (9w8)
Janis Joplin (not sure of her type)
Amy Winehouse (7w6)
Kurt Cobain

Robert Plant had depression too.. a 7w8.
Trent Reznor had depression.. a 5w4.

And on and on. So what is your point?


I never said Marilyn Manson never had depression. He is hard working, motivated, and depression is not central to his personality any more than it is for any of these other rockstars.

Jimi Hendrix was a manic depressive (bipolar). That may or may not be personality related? But it's definitely a mood disorder, not a personality disorder.

- - - Updated - - -

"Robert Plant had depression too.. a 7w8." I already mentioned the type 7 at level 9. You should have mentioned Robin Williams, a famous depressive who committed suicide when he bottomed out at level 9, sub-level 3 of type 7.
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
MBTI Type
SeFi
Enneagram
4
Why is there an argument on the guy? It's not like the guy gave an impression of someone who cared for the average individual.

There's no argument about Manson, except for this one poster talking to himself. The argument for the rest of us was about whether 4 and depression are related, and that person posted several of the exact same posts about Manson simply because I referenced his name.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Janis Joplin is supposedly a 4, according to various enneagram sites.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
There's no argument about Manson, except for this one poster talking to himself. The argument for the rest of us was about whether 4 and depression are related, and that person posted several of the exact same posts about Manson simply because I referenced his name.

You did not simply reference his name. You wrote, "ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either" after you wrote a lot of stuff about yourself feeling "arid" and - to use the correct term - disassociated from your body - which, by the way, is describing a type 9.
 
Top