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  1. #51
    Freyja's Amargith's Avatar
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    Being a 4 stinks. Both jobs and relationships can be a bitch to land due to the fact that it is all part of that ugly thing we call reality. But that said, I'm happy to be one. If you can make it work for you, it can be epic.

    I don't envy 6s. For all my envy, I dont envy them. The paranoia must be a killer - and often makes me roll my eyes when they go there for the umptieth time after knowing every time before that they were wrong to mistrust you. It is fucking tiresome to non-stop have to prove your loyalty - but I wager it must be even more tiresome to nonstop have to run that calculation coz you re triggered by your insecurities.

    That said, I'm atm counselling a 5 on the side....dude, when they go bad, they seriously go bad. The prison they build themselves, with 4 and 6 wings to draw from...woah. No offense.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Be careful what you believe, because that is the world you'll create - Cassie Nightingale

  2. #52
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think this has something to do with them being at the bottom of the enneagram. The gap between the 4 & 5 is some kind of void they have a connection to (or a disconnect from the energies of the other types; "outsiders"),
    Exactly. Where 9 is completely connected, the opposite end between 4 and 5 is torn. Not only are we outsiders, but we tend to perceive things as split in the sense that we switch from 1st person to 3rd person perspectives, see where things stick out, where they don't add up, where they need emphasis, etc. 3s aren't as withdrawn about how they relate to the world (they almost seem to think they're on top of it), so emphasizing the "peculiar" sides of life tend not to be a priority because the demand isn't as high for the peculiars.

    You would think there would be symmetry between the 6s isolation and the 3s, but to be honest 3w4s isolation may rival 6w5s. 6w7 and 3w2 start to head into a different territory all together.

  3. #53
    Riva
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    I could identify with a lof of points made about e9s, except for the conflict avoiding part. *contemplates* I have no complaints being an e7 except that I have to learn how to live according to a day plan, lest life slips away. Life slipping away is an issue, especially when I was younger. Edit - going by the descriptions it seems from each of the 3 centers, 4s and 6s and 9s are the most stressful types to be. Just imagine being a 4-6-9 tritype.
    Likes Rose for a Heart liked this post

  4. #54
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I did see a point that maybe @superunknown was making

    In the sense of a shadow, maybe

    I don't know if I can explain this properly....so hopefully you can follow my thought here

    The way I think of a shadow is best described like it's a mirror. So when I speak to someone that makes me feel intense anger...it's most likely a shadow. Like a dirty room...I used to get upset that my ex was a mess. When in all actuality I am a mess as well. It's like that part of me that I deny, or hate. Until you come to terms with it...the shadow doesn't go away and you'll always feel anger walking in to a dirty room.

    Well......fear...is a VERY strange shadow....

    What am I afraid of within me?

    What monster do I have inside me?

    I don't get it.

    Why am I so afraid....of myself? lol (Cause if you ask anyone that knows anything, they're gonna tell you to look within...whether they believe in the idea of the shadow or not)

    That's how I interpreted superunknown's post about worry manifesting externally.

    Did I interpret wrong?
    No, I think that was a pretty good extrapolation of the concept I was getting at. It's probably not objectively 'ideal' for many types to live sloppily, but yeah - the 6 fix to ease the worry would be to externally repair the situation - clean the mess, get upset so someone else cleans it, etc (I don't think this particular situation is exclusive to 6's, it is more a metaphor of the wider context of habits). Contrast against the 9 solution - they'll let the feeling pass through them, they are determined to press forth with their normal mind in tact, unperturbed. Probably slightly romanticized by my ego, but this quote comes to mind, relative to nines:

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

    The six approach, contrarily, is to tackle the fear head on. As the Enneagram Institute puts it:

    "Sixes are always aware of their anxieties and are always looking for ways to construct “social security” bulwarks against them. If Sixes feel that they have sufficient back up, they can move forward with some degree of confidence. But if that crumbles, they become anxious and self-doubting, reawakening their Basic Fear."

    This is a good example of the need for the externalization of concern that is a penchant for sixes.

    Some more, just 'cause I feel like thinking/writing...

    I think type sixes grow vested in their ideals moreso than any other type, for whatever assorted reasons - hence the term "loyalists". They, like type fives, seek an analysis of the world, but they also have a drive in them to apply these perceptions in some manner. Unlike the five, it isn't enough simply 'knowing' or 'solving' the sets of information. I think this is where the internal 'blindness' I spoke of can stem from - an attachment to applicable ideals they wholly believe are vital to their existence, often unwilling to reconcile the absence of their constructs to their idealized perceptions. It may go so far to manifest as self-sabotage, projected imagery of the unknown upon internal systems of the psyche, affecting mood.

    I think these characteristics will really shine through in the arena of politics more than anything. On one side, you likely have the radical conservative, and on the other, the revolutionary martyr - both probably Ni-6 types, and both essentially fighting for the exact same universal reasons - a strong attachment to particular sets of ideals.

  5. #55
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Hmm I think I'm a type 4.

  6. #56
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    I somehow doubt Paul was a 9.

  7. #57
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I somehow doubt Paul was a 9.
    I'll take you up on that that notion :P

    Paul is different from the other “ones” in science fiction because of his steadfast resistance to his destiny and his concern about the consequences of power. Paul does not resist because he does not believe—he knows he is the Kwisatz Haderach. He resists because he can foresee the bloody war that will result throughout the universe following his rise to power. The Bene Gesserit have arranged for the advent of “the One” because they believe a war is the only way to diversify mankind’s gene pool. Paul, however, wants to believe there is another way, one that does not cause so much suffering and death.

    Paul weaves the path of his destiny by the way he attempts to resist it. For example, he does not want to kill Stilgar so that he can rise to power. Instead, he creates a new position within the Fremen hierarchy so that both Stilgar and himself can be leaders. Paul successfully becomes the religious leader of the Fremen. However, we always have a sense that he is fighting a losing battle with his destiny. Paul feels torn between his allegiances—to the House of Atreides, to the Bene Gesserit, and to the Fremen—and his role in the intergalactic politics of the Imperium and the Landsraad. At the end of Dune, although he helps the Fremen cause and protects the Atreides from destruction by the Harkonnen, Paul is nonetheless forever trapped in his role as the Muad’Dib. The simple happiness he craves with Chani remains unattainable."


    What type do you think he is?

  8. #58
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    What type do you think he is?
    INFJ E1.

    Enneagram 9s don't resist fate as much as they surrender to it.

  9. #59
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    INFJ E1.

    Enneagram 9s don't resist fate as much as they surrender to it.
    "At the end of Dune, although he helps the Fremen cause and protects the Atreides from destruction by the Harkonnen, Paul is nonetheless forever trapped in his role as the Muad’Dib."

    I also read a brief snippet of a plot analysis detailing how he "reluctantly" carried the Jihad across the universe, resultant of his establishment to power, simply because he knows that was the role he was born into.

    But I'm not sure, I haven't read past the first Dune. One and nine isn't so far off, so I suppose it is a reasonable assessment.

  10. #60
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    "At the end of Dune, although he helps the Fremen cause and protects the Atreides from destruction by the Harkonnen, Paul is nonetheless forever trapped in his role as the Muad’Dib."

    I also read a brief snippet of a plot analysis detailing how he "reluctantly" carried the Jihad across the universe, resultant of his establishment to power, simply because he knows that was the role he was born into.

    But I'm not sure, I haven't read past the first Dune. One and nine isn't so far off, so I suppose it is a reasonable assessment.
    Every Dune novel after the first isn't much worth the read. However, I do recommend watching David Lynch's interpretation if only for the lulz.

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