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  1. #41
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Finally a sucessful thread that doesn't rely on drama.

    Let's not screw this one up, folks (you included, Rasofy).
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Just fyi, this doesn't ring true at all to me.

    Not sure if you've familiarized yourself with Molina yet, but...

    - you're 9II
    - 4s are 4EI
    - and 6s are 6SS

    That's

    - 9 Intrinsic Intrinsic
    - 4 Extrinsic Intrinsic
    - and 6 Systemic Systemic

    As a 9, your focus is about as Intrinsic (akin to introverted) as it comes.

    6s aren't focused Intrinsically or Extrinsically (akin to extroversion), we're focused on the Systemic dimension, which is essentially an in-between dimension, neither Intrinsic nor Extrinsic. It's like being on the edge of a knife, between one side and the other. Hence, 6s' tendency to be ambiverted. And the observation of our often "contradictory" natures, and the "bipolarity" of our thought processes.
    I have not, but I've seen you mention the theory prior, during my infancy on the site. Maybe I will look into it.

    Exactly.

    But it's also often described as a form of not-thinking.

    This is what I was trying to point to with my comment.

    / just got back from yoga an hour or two ago
    It can be, yeah. I believe there are two major forms, but I don't know the terms. As a nine, my conscious mind is pretty clear most times as it is, my thinking is like a 'murmur' that fills the void, only every so often a particular stray thought really slamming to the forefront. I subsequently feel I am a fan of more mindful meditation, to select a subject and ponder intensely on it, or let my mind naturally wander across it where it smolders to ash.

  3. #43
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    ^^ it became screwed up as soon as it became self-conscious

    Knowledge of good and evil and fruit and all that
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  4. #44
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I have not, but I've seen you mention the theory prior, during my infancy on the site. Maybe I will look into it.
    Best stuff on typology I've found.

    It can be, yeah. I believe there are two major forms, but I don't know the terms. As a nine, my conscious mind is pretty clear most times as it is, my thinking is like a 'murmur' that fills the void, only every so often a particular stray thought really slamming to the forefront. I subsequently feel I am a fan of more mindful meditation, to select a subject and ponder intensely on it, or let my mind naturally wander across it where it smolders to ash.
    Yeah, as a 6, I feel my head constantly filled with thoughts.

    Quieting that down a bit, and just enjoying being, seems (at least part of) the route to betterment.

    / just totally screwed up that edit by overthinking it. :P
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


  5. #45
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    ^^ it became screwed up as soon as it became self-conscious


    Knowledge of good and evil and fruit and all that
    Some things shouldn't be verbalized, I guess.

    Yours classic strategy of writing down the number of members reading the thread usually works, though.

    Anyways, good job on keeping the discussion knowledgeable.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #46
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    So the positive outlook in 9s is more of a facade that they show to others?
    Without a doubt it is a facade. A lot of the time the facade is hiding how much if a fucking mess our lives are. Positivity can be a effective denial method to pretend that there isn't unpleasant stuff we have to deal with.

    Also, as @Rasofy said, 9's are pretty bad at articulating their needs to others, which can make relationships on all levels difficult.

    But otherwise, yeah, I think 6's get the hardest of it.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  7. #47
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The research I've done has actually shown 4s, 5s, and 6s to have it hardest.
    I think this has something to do with them being at the bottom of the enneagram. The gap between the 4 & 5 is some kind of void they have a connection to (or a disconnect from the energies of the other types; "outsiders"), and 9 forms a triad with that void (being at the top, in the middle), which makes them the withdrawn triad. The proximity of 6 to 5 would bring an element of this to them & I find it easy to see (even though they seem to feel it more than appear as "outsiders"), but I'm not sure why it doesn't apply so clearly to 3s.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #48
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    I'm wondering why it matters, who has it worse.
    It doesn't lol it's silly to compare...everyone's got bs they have to deal with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    One person doesn't laugh at your joke or seems indifferent to you = "this person hates me, I'm annoying and embarassing myself. My friends are starting to distance themselves from me. I need new friends. Sh-t, I'm gonna start focusing on my screenwriting again, I don't need friends."

    I'm an 18 year old male, mind you.
    Ha ha I have literally went through that same thought pattern. Quite a lot actually...dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Not gonna lie. Being an 8 is pretty awesome. Sucks to suck, brah.
    Ha I LOL at this


    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    I'm not completely knocking this, cuz I do believe in growth, but...

    You do realize you're telling someone from the head center to think more...

    A *huge* part of our problem is that we think too much, creating something out of nothing.

    The key to moving towards health for a 6 is... well, complex.... I'll report back when I have a better understanding of it.
    Yea, but if you can replace some of the anxious crap that goes through a 6's head all day with just a little bit of rewriting their thinking habits, the person would be much happier.

    And yea, I actually HATE IT when people tell me I am over thinking things.

    Then I wanna know why the fuck they're NOT thinking about the same shit.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  9. #49
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    My impression is that a 6w5 would be quite difficult because that added little 5 gives the person the ability to over think everything including their fears. There is a lot to be afraid of and getting stuck thinking through strategies to combat every possible negative scenario is quite a difficult place to be. I think it can also be a tough combo for fitting in with other people.

    I don't have a lot of understanding of Enneagram, but this is what I gather so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    Without a doubt it is a facade. A lot of the time the facade is hiding how much if a fucking mess our lives are. Positivity can be a effective denial method to pretend that there isn't unpleasant stuff we have to deal with.

    Also, as @Rasofy said, 9's are pretty bad at articulating their needs to others, which can make relationships on all levels difficult.

    But otherwise, yeah, I think 6's get the hardest of it.
    It also seems like some 9's can be good at pushing negativity into the subconscious realm, since that is the ultimate avoidance tactic. That can make the negativity especially intangible and difficult to deal with and correct.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)


  10. #50
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    So the positive outlook in 9s is more of a facade that they show to others?
    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    okay okay...the use of god threw me...boss feels more accurate to what you mean...or fierce! with a whole swishy snap thing going on but yeah sure okay...i hear ya...
    Yea, I feel like I get where they're coming from though.

    Probably just a different definition of "God" I suppose lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Last Fall I read several of the chapters on vent.

    I've also brought it up a number of times in different threads about the Enneagram.

    It's been a long time coming that I was supposed to make a thread about it.

    It's the theoretical add-on proposed by Armando Molina (Naranjo's student) in his book 'Our Ways: Values & Character'.

    It's the best book on the Enneagram I've found, and the add-on is the most powerful piece of typology I have found.

    Naranjo highly approves of it as well, but, unfortunately, the book is not widely known.

    It costs $50, and you can only get it shipped from Europe, by the original publisher.
    Yea that is really interesting stuffs. I wanna know more about that.


    I did see a point that maybe @superunknown was making

    In the sense of a shadow, maybe

    I don't know if I can explain this properly....so hopefully you can follow my thought here

    The way I think of a shadow is best described like it's a mirror. So when I speak to someone that makes me feel intense anger...it's most likely a shadow. Like a dirty room...I used to get upset that my ex was a mess. When in all actuality I am a mess as well. It's like that part of me that I deny, or hate. Until you come to terms with it...the shadow doesn't go away and you'll always feel anger walking in to a dirty room.

    Well......fear...is a VERY strange shadow....

    What am I afraid of within me?

    What monster do I have inside me?

    I don't get it.

    Why am I so afraid....of myself? lol (Cause if you ask anyone that knows anything, they're gonna tell you to look within...whether they believe in the idea of the shadow or not)

    That's how I interpreted superunknown's post about worry manifesting externally.

    Did I interpret wrong?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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