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  1. #381
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    @Mal12345 @Boogie man Being a 4 doesn't mean you will be depressed. Further, being depressed (i.e. mentally ill) skews personality from the baseline of who a person is, and is thus more likely to mistype. Due to what 4's are about, a depressed person has a higher chance of mistyping as a 4.

    I don't recall seeing any explicit studies on the association of enneagram types and mental illnesses, but I would be surprised if there were any statistically relevant correlations. Further, if it would be reliably possible to tease apart the warped thinking associated with mental illnesses and core personality.

    I could see 4's have a higher grouping of individuals with depression. Depression as a guiding tool for determining one's enneagram type however, is not useful and shouldn't be used, so it really isn't a factor. Most of the negative health levels for all enneagram types suggest suffering from depression, and as such depression when it is used in enneagram is broad and not very type specific.

    Ultimately, this is a rather wasteful discussion to try and draw explicit lines between mental illnesses and enneagram or mbti types since it's factually a moot/broad/murky point, and it largely only increases negative stereotypes.
    On a personal note, I am a 4 and also traumatized. In the heart of severe trauma, I first encountered the enneagram. My eye went straight to 4 the minute I saw the back of the book.... and the short descriptions. But then, as I read more, I ended up mistyping at 5. Because my inner landscape felt "arid" due to trauma and I felt disconnected from my body and useless due to severe chronic illness that almost killed me and stripped me of my professional singing voice & music career I'd been building up. Left me speaking in a whisper and dependent on medications.

    I realized 12 years later when I came back to enneagram that I wasn't a 5, and then mistyped at 3 and 8 because despite chronic illness I ended up singing lead through my whisper, reclaiming myself, working my ass off, surviving in a dangerous city etc.

    I'm a 4.. I have typed that way for 3 years now and for whatever it's worth it has been verified by several experts, some of whom have studied for up to 50 years. Of course nobody is the ultimate expert, but there has literally been zero disagreement among them.

    Yet I couldn't relate to the depressive, whiny descriptions of 4. I am a 4w3, proactive about claiming my identity, overcoming hardship. Triple reactive fists. The world can't take me away from me.

    ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either.

    Real depression or trauma can feel more like a 5 or 9 description.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  2. #382
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Being a 4 doesn't mean you will be depressed." I didn't say that.

    Ever heard of levels of development?

    If you don't like the enneagram because of "stereotypes," then create a thread about enneagram stereotypes and leave true critical thinkers alone.

    I was writing enneagram articles before most of you were born. I could cite myself in an enneagram journal article if I wanted to.
    Type 4 is linked to depression at level 7.
    Type 7 is linked to depression at a lower stage - at level 9.
    But the type most notorious for being depressed is the 4, and depression is just one of many reasons for it being the hardest type to be.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  3. #383
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either."

    ?????

    Nobody said anything about whining lazy sadsacks (what an old term) until you came along.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  4. #384
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    "ANd Marilyn Manson, a 4w5, is certainly no whining lazy sadsack either."

    ?????

    Nobody said anything about whining lazy sadsacks (what an old term) until you came along.
    Oh, whoops, I went ahead and thought for myself, came up with my own phrase. A crime!
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  5. #385
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Marilyn Manson 4w5
    Marilyn Manson Shows His Vulnerable Side

    Again, Manson is probably having a little fun with us, but at least his closing statement is true, particularly in the context of the last year. This past Christmas eve, burlesque/fetish queen Dita Von Teese, whom Manson had married the previous December after a six-year relationship, filed for divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. In subsequent interviews, Von Teese pointed to Manson's alleged infidelities, substance abuse and demons (inner, not pets). He blamed depression and a basic reluctance to change his ways.

    That's where we first met, but that wasn't our bond," Manson says of Wood. In various interviews, he has described her as a creative sounding board during the making of "Eat Me, Drink Me" and a much-needed friend as he battled severe depression that at times left him almost catatonic. In Rolling Stone, Manson cited Wood's gesture of solidarity and devotion when "she picked up a butcher's knife and said, 'Here, you can stab me.' When someone was willing to drown with me, I really didn't want to drown anymore."
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  6. #386
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  7. #387
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Marilyn Manson 4w5
    Marilyn Manson Shows His Vulnerable Side

    Again, Manson is probably having a little fun with us, but at least his closing statement is true, particularly in the context of the last year. This past Christmas eve, burlesque/fetish queen Dita Von Teese, whom Manson had married the previous December after a six-year relationship, filed for divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. In subsequent interviews, Von Teese pointed to Manson's alleged infidelities, substance abuse and demons (inner, not pets). He blamed depression and a basic reluctance to change his ways.

    That's where we first met, but that wasn't our bond," Manson says of Wood. In various interviews, he has described her as a creative sounding board during the making of "Eat Me, Drink Me" and a much-needed friend as he battled severe depression that at times left him almost catatonic. In Rolling Stone, Manson cited Wood's gesture of solidarity and devotion when "she picked up a butcher's knife and said, 'Here, you can stab me.' When someone was willing to drown with me, I really didn't want to drown anymore."
    Rockstars who died from drug overdoses at age 27 and took drugs because of depression:

    Jimi Hendrix (9w8)
    Janis Joplin (not sure of her type)
    Amy Winehouse (7w6)
    Kurt Cobain

    Robert Plant had depression too.. a 7w8.
    Trent Reznor had depression.. a 5w4.

    And on and on. So what is your point?


    I never said Marilyn Manson never had depression. He is hard working, motivated, and depression is not central to his personality any more than it is for any of these other rockstars.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  8. #388
    Da Voodoo Boogie man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    and leave true critical thinkers alone.
    That's exactly what I'm doing. I urge you to not take things for granted. I stress for a deeper understanding of the Enneagram, without the cheap use of disorders.
    Neither your age nor your resources prove anything. You are using them as nothing but a shield.

    Think. Dare to go further.
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  9. #389
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Marilyn Manson Fighting Depression → Lifestyle

    - - - Updated - - -

    Marilyn Mason 4w5
    Marilyn Manson: ‘I created a fake world because I didn’t like the one I was living in’ | Music | The Guardian
    "It’s just unclear what sort of trouble. He had death threats after Columbine, and severe depression after the ending of his relationships, and suicidal thoughts."
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  10. #390
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie man View Post
    That's exactly what I'm doing. I urge you to not take things for granted. I stress for a deeper understanding of the Enneagram, without the cheap use of disorders.
    Neither your age nor your resources prove anything. You are using them as nothing but a shield.

    Think. Dare to go further.
    Create a thread on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Marilyn Manson On Last Year: '''I Was In Such A Black Hole Of Depression''' - Blabbermouth.net
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

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