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Thread: The Hardest Type to be in The Enneagram

  1. #321
    Stansmith
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    To @OrangeAppled point a while back about most 4s not having that much talent; I feel like 90% of accurately typed 4s I've seen on these forums are talented writers, or have the potential to be. They won't necessarily be great fiction writers, but they can certainly write great memoirs or autobiographies.

  2. #322
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    I find type 8 is a rather easy one.. more so for males than females, but still overall an easy type.

    I'd say 5s. Why is there not a poll here so I can easily look at 33 pages worth of responses in a single colorful picture's worth of data?
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  3. #323
    The Dark Lord Array The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i think you conflate issues rooted in underdeveloped feeling/emotional intelligence with J stereotypes. maybe they are indivisible, to you, because J = Fe for you, and you don't like it. but i don't see that as a necessary relationship or an accurate categorization.

    the representation of e5s as emotionally underdeveloped is not meant to be a particular attack on you but is meant to be an interpretation of the e5 category in generality, in all its frustrating moments. it's my reading of e5s, who systematically struggle with these issues, who are terrified of overwhelm and lose their center so easily. centering is something only which emotions provide, mediating between sensation and ideas, body and mind. centering can not result from a fixation on p or j perceptions, on outside or inside, whether they be endless narratives of what is possible or endless mirrors to reflect oneself back to oneself. choosing one instead of the other is like choosing to only accept either time or space. and furthermore, centering does not just happen in the mind between abstract j and abstract p but between their dynamic territorialization of the body and the body's upsurge through the organization emerged already.

    emotions, grounded in monitoring social relationships blending and binding us together, embedding and embodying the constructs of each other into our own worlds, help us assess the strength of relationship from our center rather than an objectively measured one that substitutes selective mathematical truths over those that we can fully experience for ourselves, that we can only fully experience when we leap into who we are as well as what is arising for us. in my estimation, then, it's more about choosing qualitative methods to balance out quantitative ones, whether that be Fe/Ti or Fi/Te. without them, you can never know yourself, because your self is only bound through relationships with others that emerge as priorities for you to offer self-care through a process of giving and receiving care with and for others. that build attachment, attraction, a kind of bond, a cycle that offers to help stabilize other cycles.

    for Fe e5s, staying with their own experience does not mean fixating on specific stories but means softening their focus not just to take in the whole in highest resolution but to feel out and balance the pertinent weights of the relationship, checking in with themselves by sympathizing with the experience on the outside to draw them into the body of the experience as a broad site rather than strictly a specific, instrumental one. not expanding their minds into the whole of the space of the world but taking in the whole of themselves and using that as a site to relate to the world, having a sense of home, finding a balance in the leverage of Ti, of one's own direct experience, with the ability to open to themselves, to fold themselves, by feeling out what it is like to be a thing like themselves in particular moments, exploring their own intensional structure, to feel out the biggest pieces of who they are and provide a sense of intention to their own awareness that is beyond the difficulties of determinism but instead allows their own internal structure, their own internal hierarchy of values to allow them to let go of the at times pedantic e5 retentive grasping qualities that present themselves when their various relationships with the world are constantly in flux and perceived as threatening amidst the moments of catastrophe that demand deeper revision and register as a discomfiting sensation of unpreparedness.

    in my understanding of the metric of e5 development, the more clinging to an idea of self, seen as what the world is rather than realized as what one feels, even when it harms oneself and others, the more unwillingness to submit to uncertainty (for one can have uncertainty of the world or uncertainty of oneself, and both sides need to be open to be dynamic and adaptive; and truly so, not just according to the image or the narrative provided and fixated upon as a way of self-justification, which i have observed quite frequently with dug-in e5s in the "NO" phase, including myself). the w4 adds another layer, which has to do with feeling afraid that one will abandon oneself because they will not be able to accept themselves as they are if they truly see themselves and truly see their effects on other people, instead relying on the art of disconnecting and flying into a rage when that disconnection loses its solidity and one must show what one truly feels to others and to oneself.

    long story short: 5s misperceive their feelings as threats.
    NOW e5 looks like me, again...
    My core type is a head type, but I can never tell which one...
    I am torn in a similar way with my heart fix.

    The only obvious fix is my gut fix, which is almost pure e9 with a nearly negligible w1.
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  4. #324
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    There is no "hardest type to be" because MBTI is a measurement of how unhealthy people choose their respective "path of least resistance".

    What you are acting like, is not "who you are", even if you think it is.

    If what you are doing doesn't work, change it!

    "The only person you are destined to be, is the person you choose to be" - Buddha

  5. #325
    Paragon Gone Wrong Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    The aspiration to detach applies to self as much as other, yes indeed. And at unhealthy levels, contributes to psychic fragility.

    Other than that, I can identify with little of what you say here. Submitting to uncertainty, having self-respect, comfort with disagreement, openness to exploring one's personal truth, none of these things are an issue for this 5.
    Extract that rafter from your own butt, bro, and I think you might find it distinctly J-shaped..
    It seemed Ni-Je to me, more specifically, with a lot of inferior Se issues.... but probably a good description of the e5 INJ experience though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    To @OrangeAppled point a while back about most 4s not having that much talent; I feel like 90% of accurately typed 4s I've seen on these forums are talented writers, or have the potential to be. They won't necessarily be great fiction writers, but they can certainly write great memoirs or autobiographies.
    Except that our lives are often much more mundane than our fantasies or even the images we may project. And various 4 issues lead to never sitting down to write that novel.... Now, bad poetry, I am master at.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

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  6. #326
    Senior Member Array The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    @Stansmith
    @The Great One
    My mother is a core 3...
    She can be a bit of slavedriver at times.
    I have a weak 3w2 fix, so I can relate to some of it, but gosh...
    I think having a strong 9w1 fix makes me want to rest a lot and being core 6w7 makes me feel inadequate.
    Your mom sounds like a core 1 from the way you describe her.

  7. #327
    Senior Member Array pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    To @OrangeAppled point a while back about most 4s not having that much talent; I feel like 90% of accurately typed 4s I've seen on these forums are talented writers, or have the potential to be. They won't necessarily be great fiction writers, but they can certainly write great memoirs or autobiographies.
    thank you! you will never understand, but that lit a gigantic lightbulb in my head and i'm going to use it!

  8. #328
    Stansmith
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    So I decided to sit and think about what it would be like to be an accurately typed Four, and reading all of your lifelong habits in a description. I imagine it'd be embarrassing for an entranced 27 year old Four to realize that they've lived their entire lives trying to be a dark-haired Elizabethan Princess and dramatizing every little event in their uneventful lives; sacrificing their relationships, careers, health and stability to latch onto them. They may realize that their doodles aren't very good (I can see how that may come off as condescending, and for that, I apologize) , their lives are stale and uneventful, and their emotions aren't as real, significant or intense as they think they are.

    All this, I'd imagine feels embarrassing or revealing from a Four-standpoint, but from a Fi-perspective, there's something so noble and beautiful about the 4's life narrative (at least in the way they describe it and experience it) that just seems so rewarding and exciting emotionally. Just the idea of finding yourself and existing separate from the Generalized other is so much more arousing than clinging to or rebelling against groups to some extent your entire life. The 4 goes where her takes her in every facet of life, while the Six to some extent lives a life you see in every generic 80s movie set in small-town Texas. It's so typical. Of course, a 4 may live the same generic lifestyle, but through a mild dose of an MDMA-esque drug which amplifies all emotion and experience.

    Most people in the general population will be more likely to empathize with the enneagram 6 plight than the 4 one, but there's something so much more touching about the Four. The Six plight is typical and familiar like a bowl of cheerios in the morning, but the 4 experience just seems like this rich blend of blue, red, purple, fuschia, magenta, whatever, even if the 4's lived their entire lives in the middle of Iowa. But of course, the grass will always seem greener.

  9. #329
    i love Array skylights's Avatar
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    ^ You have an intense focus on the concept of the "other"... you other-ize situations... you idealize the other... you focus on about how the other is not you... you empathize with the other... you degrade the self... you imagine - imagine, image - what life would look like through the perspective of another... other, image, feelings...

    Are you sure you're not a 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enneagram Central - Subtype Four Social
    Fours have an idealized images, as do all the types, but it is reversed. Fours do have an idealized self-image, but they assess their relationship to it negatively. I know what I should be like and it is such a shame that I can not and never will be able to measure up to that idea.
    I'm sorry if you feel like I'm harping on you but it just aggravates me how you paint 6 as shit all the time. I don't even understand all the stuff you say about it because as a 6 I don't think much about being boring or cookie-cutter or Cheerios or whatever. Shit, I like Cheerios. But I am reactive and defensive and I am reacting and defending in true type fashion!

  10. #330
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ^ You have an intense focus on the concept of the "other"... you other-ize situations... you idealize the other... you focus on about how the other is not you... you empathize with the other... you degrade the self... you imagine - imagine, image - what life would look like through the perspective of another... other, image, feelings...

    Are you sure you're not a 4?
    +1

    You also seem to heavily romanticize and idealize certain types over others. Not only that, but you seem to really want to be the type that suffers the most. That seems almost stereotypically 4.
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