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  1. #301
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Evidence that 5s are not in the least detached, really... They merely aspire to be. In fact, they are highly sensitive (and reactive) to the emotions and energy of others.
    A genuinely detached person would not find another person's emotional outburst in any way perturbing.

    I think @Seymour said something about 5s being territorial and having well-defended boundaries... If anything, they are territorial because they are acutely aware of how porous those boundaries are.
    I would agree with that... non-porous boundaries don't require obsessive defining and defending (although, as Naranjo points out, some 5s are cut off from their emotional awareness, while others are all too aware).

  2. #302
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Yeah, the detachment is pathological which makes it not real detachment, something 5s sometimes aren't aware of. It's the defense mechanism of the underlying hypersensitivity to engulfment, needs, objects, etc.



  3. #303
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    He's voiced that he enjoys interaction, and that he would like more of it; however, he has fairly specific tastes for his surrounding and activities, which can be hard for the rest of us to find and enjoy. He thinks in a way that is pretty different from me, so I was hoping 5s might have some insight into his POV. The replies I've gotten so far have been useful in understanding the way he may be thinking, and how to better communicate with him.
    Yes, I was just pointing out the contradiction in your original communication, which probably also informs your relationship with him..

    It reads to me that you are unhappy with his engagement as a father, yet you are framing this as a problem for *you* to solve. Do you not see how that will fail? All that *you* can do is accept him as he is and sometimes do the things that he likes to do, for his sake. But you are also entitled to make certain demands on him, in return. If you are fundamentally incompatible, the best you can do is tolerate each other.
    My goal is to find more mutual ground that him and the family (just my mom, brother, and I) can both be comfortable on. I would like to be able for us to all spend time together without it being very draining on anyone. So far I have found going out to dinner is the easiest territory, and we all love going to the beach, but I would ideally like to add more situations to that repertoire as well.
    It's interesting that you see him apart from "the family".

    Really, I think you need to ask him how he would like to solve the problem. It is *his* problem, after all. He's the one not fitting in with everyone else. If you try to solve it for him, he will probably resist. If you "reach out" clumsily, he will withdraw. It really has to come from him to have any chance of success.

    One approach that might be worthwhile is to frame it as a problem in his area of expertise: how would he counsel another family with this problem? Give him enough distance to analyse it intellectually, without getting overwhelmed by all the emotional baggage. If he approaches it from this angle, it has a better chance of getting under those defences he habitually erects to keep him inside his comfort zone.

    When he is engaging with you enthusiastically about something he's passionate about: music, for example, take care not to crush that enthusiasm by being overly critical, or dismissive, or impatient. 5s aren't terribly resilient when it comes to that kind of rejection. We expect not to be understood or accepted - when you offer confirmation of that, we quickly determine it's not worth the effort to even try.

    I would guess that the best chance for establishing a closer bond with your Dad is by finding common intellectual interests that you can explore together, one-on-one. He'll get something from going with the family out to dinner/the beach/walking/whatever, but primarily, we live in our heads, and that's where we like to be engaged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #304
    Stansmith
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    Looking back at my life when I was in average-6 levels, it wasn't really that bad. I just had social anxiety, and would maybe get depressed for 3 hours once every weekend or so. Otherwise, I didn't have any bouts of deep existential terror. Boredom and rejection bothered me more than uncertainty. I kept myself entertained whenever I was alone and only felt stressed during exam periods or whenever my English teacher raped me with homework.

    If I embarassed myself in a social situation, I'd go home, watch a game, listen to some music and hope I don't fuck up the next time. Some days I'd be uber-confident and energetic and would look forward to the next day. I was awesome around close friends or people I clicked with. It was okay.

  5. #305
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Yes, I was just pointing out the contradiction in your original communication, which probably also informs your relationship with him..

    It reads to me that you are unhappy with his engagement as a father, yet you are framing this as a problem for *you* to solve. Do you not see how that will fail? All that *you* can do is accept him as he is and sometimes do the things that he likes to do, for his sake. But you are also entitled to make certain demands on him, in return. If you are fundamentally incompatible, the best you can do is tolerate each other.
    Yes, I actually do agree with you. I think part of it is having grown up and realized that I've been expecting something out of him that is unfair to expect, as well as not being clear enough about what I can and cannot take. At this point I just want to establish more common ground that we can share.

    Just yesterday he, my mom, and I went sailing yesterday, and we had a really positive change in systemic behavior. We all like my dad to be in charge - he voices that he likes it, and mom and I both like him to do it, since he is most knowledgeable - but at first he was sort of abusing that position, getting angry at us when he felt we weren't fast enough at doing what needed to be done, or when we didn't always automatically figure out what to do. For the first time, I spoke up and said that I enjoy having him in charge and respect him, but I felt like it wasn't fair of him to speak to us like that, that he needed to give us clear and neutral (not pejorative) instructions if he were going to be captain. There was a little arguing, but for the most part it went over well, and we had a great time for the rest of the trip. That's the sort of change that I'm after, for everyone's sake.

    It's interesting that you see him apart from "the family".
    I wouldn't and don't, typically, but he often frames himself as being picked on by everyone else when the others of us feel like his behavior is unfair and/or hurtful, so in this specific question that I'm asking, that imaginary boundary plays a big part.

    Really, I think you need to ask him how he would like to solve the problem. It is *his* problem, after all. He's the one not fitting in with everyone else. If you try to solve it for him, he will probably resist. If you "reach out" clumsily, he will withdraw. It really has to come from him to have any chance of success.

    One approach that might be worthwhile is to frame it as a problem in his area of expertise: how would he counsel another family with this problem? Give him enough distance to analyse it intellectually, without getting overwhelmed by all the emotional baggage. If he approaches it from this angle, it has a better chance of getting under those defences he habitually erects to keep him inside his comfort zone.

    When he is engaging with you enthusiastically about something he's passionate about: music, for example, take care not to crush that enthusiasm by being overly critical, or dismissive, or impatient. 5s aren't terribly resilient when it comes to that kind of rejection. We expect not to be understood or accepted - when you offer confirmation of that, we quickly determine it's not worth the effort to even try.

    I would guess that the best chance for establishing a closer bond with your Dad is by finding common intellectual interests that you can explore together, one-on-one. He'll get something from going with the family out to dinner/the beach/walking/whatever, but primarily, we live in our heads, and that's where we like to be engaged.
    Thank you for the suggestions.

  6. #306
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    NJ's are the highest statistical probability, to participate in those types of events and ideological structures.

    It's science.
    Can you explain this more?

    I don't think I'm disagreeing...I'm just not sure what you mean.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
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  7. #307
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Can you explain this more?

    I don't think I'm disagreeing...I'm just not sure what you mean.
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

    I've expressed my opinion regarding the subject before on the forum, and I don't feel like treading old ground, but this thread's survey option of test results speaks volumes, in my opinion.

  8. #308
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

    I've expressed my opinion regarding the subject before on the forum, and I don't feel like treading old ground, but this thread's survey option of test results speaks volumes, in my opinion.
    Lol

  9. #309
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

    I've expressed my opinion regarding the subject before on the forum, and I don't feel like treading old ground, but this thread's survey option of test results speaks volumes, in my opinion.
    Fascinating.

    Though, to be fair, one must assume that result is inherently selecting for "Stormfront forum users who desire to discover their MBTI personality type via online quiz and perceive themselves as having those characteristics".

  10. #310
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

    I've expressed my opinion regarding the subject before on the forum, and I don't feel like treading old ground, but this thread's survey option of test results speaks volumes, in my opinion.
    Lol. I see

    I would think it shows it has more to do with tertiary Fi from the site alone ha ha...my personal opinion from experience is that is that ppl with tert. Fi hold grudges like nobody else.

    But I know how nj's think they're right about everything lol which translates to some of them that others aren't equal ....some be crazy :/
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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