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  1. #281
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    The following sounds amazingly like my 5w6 sp partner is many ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    So, 5s, how does someone who loves a 5 reach out to them and make it across that distance still being able to keep their own priorities somewhat?

    My dad - he's either 6/5 or 5/6, very much in the middle - once shared in the middle of a painful family breakdown that he does feel lonely and isolated sometimes, but the difficulty is that he's rarely willing to reach out to us on our terms. He's an INTP, sp/sx, and had a somewhat painful childhood. I love and respect him and want to make him happy, but at the same time, he's kind of hard to get along with. He's very obsessive and picky in some ways, and he's not very willing to participate unless things are the way he likes them.

    Things like... he'll put on music (quietly) even when others are sleeping, because he LOVES music. He'll ask us what we want to listen to, but he acts rejected if we don't want to listen. He'll want to do family recreation activities, but he gets super focused on us doing everything EXACTLY right, and it becomes more stressful than fun for many of us. When we try to explain, he gets upset because he feels like you're wasting your time doing it if you don't do it right. I asked him once to pick me up from the airport on a Friday evening, since he has Fri-Sun off, but he declined, saying he needed to practice music (he couldn't take a 40 minute break?). I know it was because he was stressed about an upcoming performance, but he performs regularly, and it just sort of drove home the feeling of me always needing to conform to his priorities, instead of him being able to reach out a little.

    He loves us and is generous (if generally at my mom's prodding), but it's still hard sometimes. What I've figured out so far is that meeting on completely mutual ground - sailing, dining, etc - is easiest and most successful, but we don't have a huge overlap.

    Any tips?
    For my partner, leaving home once he is settled in a huge deal... kind of unfathomingly huge from perspective. Running to the corner store, driving a guest home or picking someone up isn't a big thing for me, unless it's extremely late/early. For him, though, it's a huge drain on his precious, precious resources.

    I think that the 5 and Sp qualities are reinforcing, especially when it comes to control of physical environment. (Both Sx and So have expects that involve a bit more reaching out, at least on occasion.)

    Also, (at least in my limited experience), 5w6s tend to be less emotionally attuned than 5w4 (or maybe it's more T vs F). This means that even when they do feel isolated and lonely, they aren't particularly good at knowing how to bridge the gap. It leads to an impression that they say that want closeness, but are both afraid to reach out and not that good at responding in an attuned way when one does oneself.

    So, I struggle with my partner on this front. I try to keep in mind that the actions arising from his issues are not a judgment of my importance to him. I also try to express appreciation when he does try to reach out. Still, not a solved issue, by any means.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yes... I think Si is such a misunderstood function. People say it is boring... repetitive... but it is so interesting and varied. Two Si doms can vary SO MUCH given their past histories and experiences, more I think than with any other function.
    Yeah see this guy majored in business, graduated with a 3.7 and spent the next ten years managing productions before switching to advertising. He's about my age and just in the past couple of years started creative writing. He has his side of the bed, became predictable in some ways with in a few months, and always seemed to be watching sports.

    Yet he wasn't boring or closed minded.

    Exactly what jock described. Like he became obsessed with completing a half marathon and mildly injured himself. Also very obsessed with writing. Very passionate but push pull hot cold with me.

    Sometimes I think enneagram is easier than mbti. He seems 5w4 sx sp. But I am unsure of his type besides being aware of his Si.

  3. #283
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    Wow. I would not want to date a 5. It sounds really hard.

  4. #284
    Saponi Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Wow. I would not want to date a 5. It sounds really hard.
    Fair enough.

    But there is the possibility of this:

    "...That fear of being controlled or possessed by
    someone else.. if it's the right person.. oh god, do they ever surrender.
    The amount they give.. the honesty and desire.. blows all other types away, in my experience.

    when a 5 makes the decision to share themselves in a meaningful way .. you might get a hell of a lot more than you were expecting. There is a profound beauty in the trust and vulnerability of it.

    However, I don't think very many people ever get to know a 5 that way. And that is smart of them. The trust they show is a kind of soul surrender and few should ever be trusted when such a thing takes place."

  5. #285
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Fair enough.

    But there is the possibility of this:

    "...That fear of being controlled or possessed by
    someone else.. if it's the right person.. oh god, do they ever surrender.
    The amount they give.. the honesty and desire.. blows all other types away, in my experience.

    when a 5 makes the decision to share themselves in a meaningful way .. you might get a hell of a lot more than you were expecting. There is a profound beauty in the trust and vulnerability of it.

    However, I don't think very many people ever get to know a 5 that way. And that is smart of them. The trust they show is a kind of soul surrender and few should ever be trusted when such a thing takes place."
    Definitely agree, wholeheartedly.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


    @skylights.. after reading about your dad, I wish I had some sort of advice (as a pretty neurotic 5w6) to dispense on how to handle someone like him- in terms of actually establishing mutual "quality" in your "quality time," but personally, I'm a bit stumped. He sounds pretty extreme. By that, I mean- his needs appear to transcend any correlation to any kind of pop-psych typing we could apply to 'em. Sounds like there's some kind of neurosis present, or maybe a mild disorder of some sort (I'm no psychiatrist- I only studied it [haven't we all, ha], but the pattern you describe kinda raises red flags). Did he ever see a therapist for his past?
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #286
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Tell him how important it is for you that he lets you do things your way, regardless of his ideas of what's right or wrong (i.e. that's not the point).

    Demand equal treatment. You don't have to submit to his standards all the time - you're an adult already.

    Just don't tell him he's wrong, as that will make him defensive.
    Well, that's true. I can be more clear about how I want to do things. Though I didn't mean to make it sound like he was being forceful. He's not at all pushy - I can leave any time, and he retreats very quickly. For instance, I could have told him to can the music, and he'd have been hurt and just would have left. It's just, I do want to do things with him, but I want to figure out how to make it mutually enjoyable. Right now I feel like the only way I can figure to reach him is on his ground, and that makes it unsustainable for me, and builds resentment. I hate when I try to do something with him, on his terms, and then get mad at him for being himself - I feel like I'm doing more damage than good in that case.

    Oh, I see. So it was more than just a hobby - he probably takes the performances very seriously, and likely wasn't in the mood to deal with traffic and a chatty ENFP at the same time (hah).

    Besides, he would end up losing much more than 40min if you discount the time that he would need to refocus on the task.
    This is true. I guess I really just need to accept that unlike me, he has certain times where people interaction just is not desirable at all. To be fair, I see picking someone up from the airport as a fun, exciting, happy thing, whereas it might not tickle him quite so much. I may be looking at it too much through my own eyes. Maybe a lot of times I am looking at him through my own lens of who "a dad" "should" be - warm, protective, helpful, etc - instead of who my dad really is - analytical, incredibly knowledgeable, instructive, etc. And that is not fair to him, or to myself.



    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Yeah, this is familiar. I could go into the psychological justifications for the actions but I don't think that's what you're looking for. Tips? No idea. Haven't worked it out myself.

    I know with the airport thing...I used to have (and probably still would have if put into the situation again) tremendous anxiety when it came to having to be "on" in public and be social. When I waited tables as a summer thing in college, I'd spend all day, hours before my shift, just sort of hiding out alone and watching the clock tick by 15 minutes at a time. If someone had asked me to do something that day, I'd say no way, I can't spare the time and make something up, because the idea of losing even a single minute of prep time for the "performance" would be completely terrifying. But when I'd finally get to work and be "on" I'd be completely fine. One would never know I had stayed in my room all day dreading work, I'd be perfectly friendly and entirely competent and at the end of my shift think "well that wasn't so bad" until the next shift when it started all over again. I don't know if this is partly due to 5-ness or because I'm just a lunatic though, so. YMMV.
    No, that's really interesting, because that sounds completely like him too. He gets really wound up and tense about practice time but then when he performs he seems so at ease. So I'm always like clearly he didn't need all that practice time... but maybe all that stressed prep is what makes him okay during the performance. For me it's crazy to think that prep is more stressful than performance because I enjoy practice and HATE performing, but that's me.

    You say he's been doing it regularly but if he has a similar habit, I don't know what to tell you. But that might be something that's happening. If he hasn't figured it out by now he might not. Unless you wanna sneak some xanax into his coffee.
    Shouldn't give me ideas like that...

    You might try to simply explain your issues but maybe avoid how his behavior makes you feel, instead emphasizing the inherent unfairness of his expectation. When 5s figure out they're hurting others because of their behavior they'll think retreating and withholding is best for everybody (I can't hurt you if I'm not part of your life). He's likely to retreat if the problem is presented as unfairness or an imbalance, like a scale is not weighted properly. Also mention you understand his need for time and space and mention you understand why he needs it; when anybody feels understood I think it's easier for them to make efforts because that effort is recognized.
    That sounds good, thank you, Jock. He did explain during our family breakdown that he often withdraws to not do any damage, since he felt like his father hurt his family by being way too pushy and aggressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    The following sounds amazingly like my 5w6 sp partner is many ways.

    For my partner, leaving home once he is settled in a huge deal... kind of unfathomingly huge from perspective. Running to the corner store, driving a guest home or picking someone up isn't a big thing for me, unless it's extremely late/early. For him, though, it's a huge drain on his precious, precious resources.

    I think that the 5 and Sp qualities are reinforcing, especially when it comes to control of physical environment. (Both Sx and So have expects that involve a bit more reaching out, at least on occasion.)

    Also, (at least in my limited experience), 5w6s tend to be less emotionally attuned than 5w4 (or maybe it's more T vs F). This means that even when they do feel isolated and lonely, they aren't particularly good at knowing how to bridge the gap. It leads to an impression that they say that want closeness, but are both afraid to reach out and not that good at responding in an attuned way when one does oneself.

    So, I struggle with my partner on this front. I try to keep in mind that the actions arising from his issues are not a judgment of my importance to him. I also try to express appreciation when he does try to reach out. Still, not a solved issue, by any means.
    The bolded sounds very important... thank you.

    I was actually really surprised to discover that he felt lonely and isolated - I thought he wanted to get away from us. Part of the reason I'm asking all of this is because it was so startlingly sad to discover that he would leave not because he didn't want to be around, but because he saw it as what would be best for the family. But I see why he might think that, because the "distance" between himself and reality is far, if that makes sense. Not in that he's crazy, or anything, but that he tends to wrap himself up in the things that are "safe" to him and then make it hard to leave them.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Wow. I would not want to date a 5. It sounds really hard.
    You know, it's funny, I could see it both ways. On one hand, the distance and withdrawal would be hard. On the other hand, with my dad, once he roots in something, he's there. My mom is an ESFJ 2, and that seems like a really weird combination with an INTP 5, but it works for them. He's very steady, in a way. He roots to the house... to her... to his job... to his hobbies. My father will never be the type to just up and leave. In some ways that attachment is a rare and very valuable quality. I think I would have a hard time with a 5 because I seek a lot of emotional reassurance, but I can also think of a lot of more independent people for whom a relationship with a 5 might be really good. I have an ENFJ friend (not sure of her enneatype), who seems to only date 5w4s, and she LOVES them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    @skylights.. after reading about your dad, I wish I had some sort of advice (as a pretty neurotic 5w6) to dispense on how to handle someone like him- in terms of actually establishing mutual "quality" in your "quality time," but personally, I'm a bit stumped. He sounds pretty extreme. By that, I mean- his needs appear to transcend any correlation to any kind of pop-psych typing we could apply to 'em. Sounds like there's some kind of neurosis present, or maybe a mild disorder of some sort (I'm no psychiatrist- I only studied it [haven't we all, ha], but the pattern you describe kinda raises red flags). Did he ever see a therapist for his past?

  7. #287
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    This is true. I guess I really just need to accept that unlike me, he has certain times where people interaction just is not desirable at all. To be fair, I see picking someone up from the airport as a fun, exciting, happy thing, whereas it might not tickle him quite so much. I may be looking at it too much through my own eyes. Maybe a lot of times I am looking at him through my own lens of who "a dad" "should" be - warm, protective, helpful, etc - instead of who my dad really is - analytical, incredibly knowledgeable, instructive, etc. And that is not fair to him, or to myself.
    One big upset I had early on with my partner was when I missed the last shuttle bus back from work when working on a work crisis. It was around 7:30, so I called my partner and ask if he wouldn't mind coming to get me (perhaps a 20-30 minute round trip, since traffic had died down by then). I was shocked when he reacted like I'd asked him to climb Mt Everest. I felt very hurt at the time.

    For me, it would not have been a bit deal at all. For him, it was a major imposition.

    Of course, now I can use that difference to my advantage... such as when I offer go to a nearby store to fetch the ingredient he forgot to pick up earlier. Then he's incredibly grateful about something that is no biggie to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    The bolded sounds very important... thank you.

    I was actually really surprised to discover that he felt lonely and isolated - I thought he wanted to get away from us. Part of the reason I'm asking all of this is because it was so startlingly sad to discover that he would leave not because he didn't want to be around, but because he saw it as what would be best for the family. But I see why he might think that, because the "distance" between himself and reality is far, if that makes sense. Not in that he's crazy, or anything, but that he tends to wrap himself up in the things that are "safe" to him and then make it hard to leave them.
    Glad that was a little helpful, perhaps. I do understand that sense of distance, too. I feel like I'm always figuring out and prepping to take action (to enter reality), but I rarely do. Part of it is fear of being seen and found inadequate (or, with 4-ish issues mixed in, unlovable/unacceptable).


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    You know, it's funny, I could see it both ways. On one hand, the distance and withdrawal would be hard. On the other hand, with my dad, once he roots in something, he's there. My mom is an ESFJ 2, and that seems like a really weird combination with an INTP 5, but it works for them. He's very steady, in a way. He roots to the house... to her... to his job... to his hobbies. My father will never be the type to just up and leave. In some ways that attachment is a rare and very valuable quality. I think I would have a hard time with a 5 because I seek a lot of emotional reassurance, but I can also think of a lot of more independent people for whom a relationship with a 5 might be really good. I have an ENFJ friend (not sure of her enneatype), who seems to only date 5w4s, and she LOVES them.
    I have a hard time imagining being with a 2, since they tend to raise my hackles right away. The "giving to get" I find problematic, because I (5-ishly) actively avoid being obligated or indebted to others. I've heard that 5+2 couples are not that uncommon, but I find it difficult to see how it would work. (On the other hand, it would be convenient to have someone about who was more practical about attending to things.)


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  8. #288
    Stansmith
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    A 7 dealing wih anxiety issues later in life


  9. #289
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Disdain probably wasn’t the best word
    Disdain works for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    "...That fear of being controlled or possessed by
    someone else.. if it's the right person.. oh god, do they ever surrender.
    The amount they give.. the honesty and desire.. blows all other types away, in my experience.

    when a 5 makes the decision to share themselves in a meaningful way .. you might get a hell of a lot more than you were expecting. There is a profound beauty in the trust and vulnerability of it.

    However, I don't think very many people ever get to know a 5 that way. And that is smart of them. The trust they show is a kind of soul surrender and few should ever be trusted when such a thing takes place."
    Who wrote that? Some lovesick NF?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #290
    Saponi Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Disdain works for me.


    Who wrote that? Some lovesick NF?
    I've no idea. Found it on an enneagram site.

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