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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    My therapist was frustrated by my refusal to engage with my issues. I kinda just sat in my chair, looked at my feet, and said things like "No, IDK" and "meh" for the first three months, haha. So I can see how 9s can be annoying in therapy.
    Yeah, my mom made me see a therapist in high school, just because, I guess.

    It was pretty much thirty minutes of small-talk, every time...

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Maybe it would be more accurate to say that the types on the bottom are more acutely aware of their suffering? I don't really think anyone suffers more or less, or that it's even possible to measure or compare. But I do think it would be right to say that 4s with their difference, 5s with their isolation, and 6s with their anxiety tend to be very focused on their perceived problems. That does not necessarily mean we actually experience more suffering, but probably that we are more aware of the how, when, where, and why of it.
    I disagree. I believe nines are acutely capable of rationalizing internal states against the happenings of reality, leading to the rapid metabolization of emotional reactions they are known for.

    Understanding is the key to absolution. If those types truly understood the depths of their concerns to the breadth you ascribe, they would be absolved of the characteristic worry they feel. I feel it is a core motivation of the Enneagram nine to seek and destroy every shred of concern in their body as quickly as possible, while many other types (head center, particularly) externalize their concerns, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, never really getting to the purest underlying concerns of the psyche.

    But maybe not. I'm just recanting Buddhism 101.

  2. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I disagree. I believe nines are acutely capable of rationalizing internal states against the happenings of reality, leading to the rapid metabolization of emotional reactions they are known for.
    I was thinking about all of what was said about nine in this thread today. I feel that I don't hide from my emotions or whatever. Also I don't dwell on them or express much either, they seem just a part of being human. That is my understanding of the truth will set you free. Acceptance.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I think you're right about this, and I get kind of annoyed at the 8-idolization that goes on on English-speaking enneagram forums. The 8s I've met have basically just been normal people, not rulers with phenomenal powers or anything.
    They're not talking about enneagram 8's. They're talking about THE CONQUERERS! (estp's) Alexander the great, ghenghis khan, Atilla the Hun...

    All those ENTJ's you hear about who want to rule the world? Those are actually ESTP's.

    Someday... Someday, I will join our modern kings in Singapore.

    *sighs*

  4. #194
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I disagree. I believe nines are acutely capable of rationalizing internal states against the happenings of reality, leading to the rapid metabolization of emotional reactions they are known for.

    Understanding is the key to absolution. If those types truly understood the depths of their concerns to the breadth you ascribe, they would be absolved of the characteristic worry they feel. I feel it is a core motivation of the Enneagram nine to seek and destroy every shred of concern in their body as quickly as possible, while many other types (head center, particularly) externalize their concerns, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, never really getting to the purest underlying concerns of the psyche.

    But maybe not. I'm just recanting Buddhism 101.
    It's a good point... clarifies a difference in the experience of cognition.

    My thought from the POV of a 6 is that I don't necessarily seek to completely understand the nature of the internal concern itself, but I desperately try to guard against the concern, turning it from a typically minor issue into a major source of stress. It's a focus on the concern as I perceive it, but not on the concern as it is in reality, removed from my internal state of mind... I don't tend to leave the box of my own reactive thought without a conscious struggle. Whereas with what you're saying with 9, 9 seems to have a better grasp of the difference between internal state and reality, and is more readily able to put that concern into perspective.

    I would agree that part of the whole reason 4s, 5s, and 6s can't let go of their problems is because they don't try to get rid of them from the roots and instead address them as fixed realities. In some ways those three types all "expand" negatives as a way of addressing them.

  5. #195
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Yeah, my mom made me see a therapist in high school, just because, I guess.

    It was pretty much thirty minutes of small-talk, every time...



    I disagree. I believe nines are acutely capable of rationalizing internal states against the happenings of reality, leading to the rapid metabolization of emotional reactions they are known for.

    Understanding is the key to absolution. If those types truly understood the depths of their concerns to the breadth you ascribe, they would be absolved of the characteristic worry they feel. I feel it is a core motivation of the Enneagram nine to seek and destroy every shred of concern in their body as quickly as possible, while many other types (head center, particularly) externalize their concerns, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, never really getting to the purest underlying concerns of the psyche.

    But maybe not. I'm just recanting Buddhism 101.
    Well thank the universe, that at least a 6 integrates to nine....sighs....at least there's hope.

    Cause the way u describe it you almost have a passionor like a really strong urge to get rid of "concern"....

    I want to get rid of it of course.....but I don't know if my motivation is as strong as yours....almost as if it's clouded or something.

    I know it used to be much stronger for me.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
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  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    It's a good point... clarifies a difference in the experience of cognition.

    My thought from the POV of a 6 is that I don't necessarily seek to completely understand the nature of the internal concern itself, but I desperately try to guard against the concern, turning it from a typically minor issue into a major source of stress. It's a focus on the concern as I perceive it, but not on the concern as it is in reality, removed from my internal state of mind... I don't tend to leave the box of my own reactive thought without a conscious struggle. Whereas with what you're saying with 9, 9 seems to have a better grasp of the difference between internal state and reality, and is more readily able to put that concern into perspective.

    I would agree that part of the whole reason 4s, 5s, and 6s can't let go of their problems is because they don't try to get rid of them from the roots and instead address them as fixed realities. In some ways those three types all "expand" negatives as a way of addressing them.
    How exactly does this work for 5s? They just seem like 9s who like to read books and study physics.

  7. #197
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    It's a good point... clarifies a difference in the experience of cognition.

    My thought from the POV of a 6 is that I don't necessarily seek to completely understand the nature of the internal concern itself, but I desperately try to guard against the concern, turning it from a typically minor issue into a major source of stress. It's a focus on the concern as I perceive it, but not on the concern as it is in reality, removed from my internal state of mind... I don't tend to leave the box of my own reactive thought without a conscious struggle. Whereas with what you're saying with 9, 9 seems to have a better grasp of the difference between internal state and reality, and is more readily able to put that concern into perspective.

    I would agree that part of the whole reason 4s, 5s, and 6s can't let go of their problems is because they don't try to get rid of them from the roots and instead address them as fixed realities. In some ways those three types all "expand" negatives as a way of addressing them.
    OMG...YES! I should have read this before I replied! lol

    But that's exactly what I'm doing. trying to guard against the concern...
    @superunknown do you think a nine is less preemptive about their "seeking and destroying" a concern than a 6? Like less worried about it until it gets there (sounds like Se)...instead of a 6 worrying about everything so that it doesn't get to them?

    I mean there is a correlation between enneatype and MBTI...I just forget the probability of a 9 NOT being a sensor.

    And in that case I think it may have to do with functions.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    How exactly does this work for 5s? They just seem like 9s who like to read books and study physics.
    The competency thing. 5s feel like they're not up to the challenge so they retreat to observe, learn, and (where 5 moves into 6) prepare. But they also use their hyperfocus on perceived competency in a certain area to replace other areas of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnneagramInstitute
    The irony is that no matter what degree of mastery they develop in their area of expertise, this cannot solve their more basic insecurities about functioning in the world. For example, as a marine biologist, a Five could learn everything there is to know about a type of shellfish, but if her fear is that she is never going to be able to run her own household adequately, she will not have solved her underlying anxiety.
    I dunno. Theorizing theorizing theorizing

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Would you mind expanding on this?
    Oh I'll expand alright... <--I think that may be one of the weirdest things I've ever said on the internet.

    I will expand when I have more time but first...am I expected to...





    Where did you get this from?
    I think I used the wrong word (introspection). I should have probably used the word 'fantasy.'
    You probably understand these things better than I do. There's some sort of conflict between the external focus of the e7 and the intimate focus of the sx-dom...that comes together and apparently creates an e7 that is especially dreamy. They are Idealists x 1000. And unlike what you would expect to find under other points on the enneagram...we are more 'introverted' than the e7 sp (I'm typing this very fast so...) We enjoy intense experiences...but the thing is we don't need them because...we can create anything we want...any *world* we want in our heads. We can escape pain and negative thoughts in our head and are less inclined to be reckless in the way you describe. Now, I've smoked a lot of pot in my day...but unless you're like Tom Hardy or Jason Momoa...the thought of having cheap sex with someone is repulsive to me. What else... we're sorta the revolutionists because we are always mindful of 'what could be.' How things should be...



    I think it talks about it somewhere in here maybe...?



    totally don't have time to edit this so...my apologies...

  10. #200
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    Yeah agreed... I'm never hedonist in ways I find empty or superficially meaningless.

    Not at all interested in casual hook ups and the fact that I'm a six wing and have that sp second... I care about protecting myself from dangerous situations.

    Plus I'm very fi and have a great deal of self respect and treat myself better than all that.

    I don't like the idea of living an unhealthy lifestyle.

    And don't escape in such ways.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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