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  1. #1
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    Default Difference between E3 and E5?

    A Type 3 seeks to feel valuable through affirmation from others and from the sense of accomplishment of one's own goals.

    Type 5's main goal is mastery-- the omnipotence of complete understanding in every situation, through analysis and finding of truth.

    The difficulty is, for me, I see the finding of truth and social approval/real world accomplishment as synonymous, in that:

    In my opinion, real world accomplishment/results is the only way to objectively prove one's understanding/mastery-- anything less seems hollow/self-serving, to analyze within one's own mind, however solid the chain of logic, may be biased or missing important information. Conversely I also believe that understanding/mastery of the big picture will inevitably lead to social approval/real world accomplishment, in that, if I am not succeeding in life, my understanding of myself and what I should be doing with my life is flawed. My desire to affirm my mastery for myself leads me to appeal to others in order to get real evidence of my understanding, and yet, my desire for real world accomplishments leads me to search for the truth in every situation. Its hard to decipher which desire reflects my ultimate goal in life.

    So I was hoping someone could provide some illuminating real world ways to tell whether one is a Type 3 or Type 5 Enneagram.

  2. #2
    Stansmith
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    E3 is image-conscious, E5 is not. You could argue E5s give off the image of competence or intellegence, but they're not gonna be as obsessed with surface-things like grooming, tailoring their suit to the perfect fit, mastering a firm handshake, etc.

    But when it comes down to it, do you care more about looking successful and being admired by others for your mastery (whether you've actually mastered something or not), or are your goals of mastery completely personal?

  3. #3
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Op sounds like a 3.

    Knowledge for 5s is much more than a tool to achieve stuff.

    Things like trying to understand our purpose (or lack thereof) in this world have a much bigger importance in the grand scheme of things.

    Also, a wide social approval doesn't mean anything in terms of quality. In fact, in order to make something popular, it's usually necessary to dumb down whatever it is that you're presenting (see: The Big Bang Theory).
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    But when it comes down to it, do you care more about looking successful and being admired by others for your mastery (whether you've actually mastered something or not), or are your goals of mastery completely personal?
    This is a good way to tell.


    What also helps is to look at 'unhealthy' levels and see which one is more 'ouch'. Fives also hate being vulnerable and they feel like they need to hoard all the knowledge in the world (in areas which they deem important) in order to fend for themselves. Deep down they might feel overwhelmed by the world, and need to retreat to 'store up' their knowledge to make sense of it all.

    Threes are more 'open' that way. They actively engage with the world in order to win approval. To me both types have different kinds of energy.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Op sounds like a 3.

    Knowledge for 5s is much more than a tool to achieve stuff.

    Things like trying to understand our purpose (or lack thereof) in this world have a much bigger importance in the grand scheme of things.

    Also, a wide social approval doesn't mean anything in terms of quality. In fact, in order to make something popular, it's usually necessary to dumb down whatever it is that you're presenting (see: The Big Bang Theory).
    Well what I mean by social approval is, any kind of response by the outer world has to be interpreted by me, and I decide whether or not it matters to me (as in, whether or not it contributes to my understanding of myself), I'm not just blindly about general popularity, but yes, being liked by people is important to me, because it is how I judge my own strength of character. And yes I do seek knowledge for its own sake-- the feeling of discovery or sudden realization is one of the greatest feelings for me. But equally great is seeing my ideas work in reality-- I see reality as solidifying my inner world. But I guess at heart, I am still a 3 since I would still feel like crap if the ideas I come up with never improve my life in any way. Ideas interest me, but ultimately the world energizes me. What's odd is that I am an INTP, and apparently type 3's are pretty rare for INTPs.

  6. #6
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    The thing is, I was a pure 5 type for awhile, but as I came to acquire more life experience, it has been humbling, to understand that some things have to be experienced to be appreciated rather than analyzed from afar. Also I have tried to analyze my own emotions and more and more I am coming to the realization that my emotions are to an extent driven by accomplishments (which is probably evolutionary), as are most people's emotions, from an evolutionary point of view. Intellectual curiosity has always been a strong driving force for me, and I used to see it as the end-all be all of life, but idk, these days, I tend to see it more like a special treat, to be indulged in at times to strengthen my core values, but also I see that it is impoverishing to my mind and body, its like, I have to balance my real world desire for accomplishments (type 3) with my curiosity (type 5), in order to experience and understand the world fully. My ultimate goal would be a person who finds value in everything in life. THat is my ultimate goal (not saying i am anywhere close)

  7. #7
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona View Post
    The thing is, I was a pure 5 type for awhile, but as I came to acquire more life experience, it has been humbling, to understand that some things have to be experienced to be appreciated rather than analyzed from afar. Also I have tried to analyze my own emotions and more and more I am coming to the realization that my emotions are to an extent driven by accomplishments (which is probably evolutionary), as are most people's emotions, from an evolutionary point of view. Intellectual curiosity has always been a strong driving force for me, and I used to see it as the end-all be all of life, but idk, these days, I tend to see it more like a special treat, to be indulged in at times to strengthen my core values, but also I see that it is impoverishing to my mind and body, its like, I have to balance my real world desire for accomplishments (type 3) with my curiosity (type 5), in order to experience and understand the world fully. My ultimate goal would be a person who finds value in everything in life. THat is my ultimate goal (not saying i am anywhere close)
    I relate a lot. Personally, I think a single enneagram is often not enough to properly describe a personality - and that's why enneagram tri types work very well for a lot of people.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  8. #8
    Ginkgo
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    Probably just about every difference you can think of.

  9. #9
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    3's are scared of being worthless
    5's are scared of being inadequate

    3's tend to be fairly ruthless decision makers
    5's tend to be very hesitant decision makers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    3's are scared of being worthless
    5's are scared of being inadequate

    3's tend to be fairly ruthless decision makers
    5's tend to be very hesitant decision makers
    Hmm see I'm not seeing the difference between worthless and inadequate quite so easily...

    And I don't know if that second bit is true, Type 5's are more ruthless when it comes to not caring what people think, Type 3's are more likely to balance the perceptions of others

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