[Traditional Enneagram] Heart Triad vs. Gut Triad motivations

[mintleaf]

From this thread:

Instinctive- (Eight, Nine, One)

Concerned with: Resistance and Control of the Environment
Have Issues with: Aggression and Repression
Seeks: Autonomy
Wants to: Maintain a felt sense of self
Underlying Feeling: Rage

Feeling- (Two, Three, Four)

Concerned with: Love of False Self and Self Image
Have issues with: Identity and Hostility
Seeks: Attention
Wants to: Maintain a personal identity
Underlying Feeling: Shame

I'm mostly interested in how the bolded points differ. I know it might seem like a simple, easily made distinction, but I'm curious how gut and heart types would expand on it in the context of their personal experience.

Questions specifically for heart triad types:
How do you "construct" your identity, if you would describe it that way at all? How do you make sure that your self-image isn't false?

Questions for anyone:
If gut types' aim is to maintain a felt sense of self, would you say that heart types' aim is to maintain a seen sense of self? if so, where is the distinction?

Questions for gut triad types:
Do you really experience a great deal of rage, or would you consider that an exaggeration? How does controlling of the environment relate to maintaining a felt sense of self, if at all?

 

[Entropic]

I can distinguish the two quite easily in that for E8, it would be more: I'm me or me is me, but for 4, it's more, I'm me when I'm true to myself or when I'm true to myself I can be me.

 

[Amargith]

Im a 4.

I have many aspects to my personality, and a couple of preferences as to which way I want to grow. Some of those ideas however will be wishful thinking, as I saw them in others but they may not fit me. Also, it is hard to get a read on who I truly am. I can look within, but unless Im provided with a mirror, I cannot see what others see when they look at me. So it becomes a puzzle of which aspects do I develop, which ones do I use when, how do I keep those aspects from being divorced from my actual core and how do I gain insight in how I am perceived so it all is connected and makes sense as a whole.

I'd wager that an 8 is likely to be looking for his source of power, moreso than his identity. In a way that is his identity, I realize, but it is more about beign able to wield that power in an efficient way, than it is about being authentic, Id bet.

Whereas for me...I'll showcase my flaws as well, or make myself showcase those, as they are part of me and being authentic.

 

[skylights]

There is a distinct physicality to the gut types. A body-ness. 8s are very solid, 1s are rigid, and 9s are a gateway that can either be very present and open or very cut off and removed. It's sort of connected to anger because anger is a precursor to / preparation for usage of power, and all of these types turn their selves into vessels for personal power - 8 hoards and asserts it; 9 empties itself of it; and 1 strictly regulates it.

Heart types don't struggle with the content of the vessel but rather the presentation of it.

 

[valaki]

I'm mostly interested in how the bolded points differ. I know it might seem like a simple, easily made distinction, but I'm curious how gut and heart types would expand on it in the context of their personal experience.

I'm curious too.

Questions specifically for heart triad types:
How do you "construct" your identity, if you would describe it that way at all? How do you make sure that your self-image isn't false?

Would a type 3 be able to answer this much?

Questions for gut triad types:
Do you really experience a great deal of rage, or would you consider that an exaggeration? How does controlling of the environment relate to maintaining a felt sense of self, if at all?

Rage is a strong word. No, there are levels of mobilization / anger, rage is just the highest level and no it doesn't happen all the time. Lower levels of anger happen much more easily. Well feels "lower" to me, but I noticed different people have different sensitivities

As for the second question, good question. I guess if I am controlling the environment then I definitely have a self and not just a passive part. Maybe this isn't what the description meant but this is how I see it.