User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: Power-seeking

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx
    Posts
    178

    Default

    I didn't realize this. I thought power seeker only referred to Eight, Nine, and One, but I think I get what you are saying. And I did actually read somewhere that Eight, Five, and Nine were the "control" types. So I guess that is the same thing. It makes me question though, if Eights, Nines, and Ones, are the sexual types, then why are they not intense like the Eight... or maybe they are in different ways??? and I guess that leads me to think I don't think Two and Five are power types as much as controlling as in they try very hard to control what brings out their ticks???

  2. #12
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I didn't realize this. I thought power seeker only referred to Eight, Nine, and One, but I think I get what you are saying. And I did actually read somewhere that Eight, Five, and Nine were the "control" types. So I guess that is the same thing. It makes me question though, if Eights, Nines, and Ones, are the sexual types, then why are they not intense like the Eight... or maybe they are in different ways??? and I guess that leads me to think I don't think Two and Five are power types as much as controlling as in they try very hard to control what brings out their ticks???
    None of this is entirely correct. Type 8, 9 and 1 are not power-seeker types but gut/body types. In enneagram theory, the enneagram is split up in three triad of three types each. The first center is heart and consists of 2, 3 and 4; head consisting of 5, 6, and 7 and lastly gut consisting of 8, 9 and 1. Each triad is associated with one primary emotion, the heart triad being associated with shame, head anxiety/fear and gut anger.

    Sexual types is a completely different and separate aspect of enneagram theory that is called instinctual variants. Every person has, in combination with their enneatype, one instinctual subtype and there are three instincts: self-preservation or self-pres (sp), sexual (sx) and social (so/c). I am for example a 5w4 sx type, meaning that I am a core 5 with a 4 wing, and my instinctual subtype variant is that of sexual.

    We can then combine the instincts (3x3) and we then receive 9 different instinctual variants based on order of preference. I am for example sx/sp/so or sx/sp for short, since my we only need to know the first two to figure out what the last one is.

    Power-seeking as they appear in type 2, 5 and 8 are completely unrelated to everything in the above. Instead, power-seek is an inherent mechanism of the core type which has to do with how the types move between each other, with type 5 being a reaction against 8 and 8 being a reaction against 2. We see a similar logic in the frustration triad (1, 4 and 7) and so on. This just shows that while the types are very different they also all share similar mechanics through interconnectivity.

    Power-seek is different between 2, 5 and 8 as the power-seek is reflected through the core type. Power-seek in type 2 is the need to have power over people, and this power over people is achieved when people become indebted to type 2. In type 5, power-seek is the result to control one's mind, to have complete power over mind, and in type 8 it's about seeking power in the environment, to control the environment so it doesn't control you.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    None of this is entirely correct. Type 8, 9 and 1 are not power-seeker types but gut/body types. In enneagram theory, the enneagram is split up in three triad of three types each. The first center is heart and consists of 2, 3 and 4; head consisting of 5, 6, and 7 and lastly gut consisting of 8, 9 and 1. Each triad is associated with one primary emotion, the heart triad being associated with shame, head anxiety/fear and gut anger.

    Sexual types is a completely different and separate aspect of enneagram theory that is called instinctual variants. Every person has, in combination with their enneatype, one instinctual subtype and there are three instincts: self-preservation or self-pres (sp), sexual (sx) and social (so/c). I am for example a 5w4 sx type, meaning that I am a core 5 with a 4 wing, and my instinctual subtype variant is that of sexual.

    We can then combine the instincts (3x3) and we then receive 9 different instinctual variants based on order of preference. I am for example sx/sp/so or sx/sp for short, since my we only need to know the first two to figure out what the last one is.

    Power-seeking as they appear in type 2, 5 and 8 are completely unrelated to everything in the above. Instead, power-seek is an inherent mechanism of the core type which has to do with how the types move between each other, with type 5 being a reaction against 8 and 8 being a reaction against 2. We see a similar logic in the frustration triad (1, 4 and 7) and so on. This just shows that while the types are very different they also all share similar mechanics through interconnectivity.

    Power-seek is different between 2, 5 and 8 as the power-seek is reflected through the core type. Power-seek in type 2 is the need to have power over people, and this power over people is achieved when people become indebted to type 2. In type 5, power-seek is the result to control one's mind, to have complete power over mind, and in type 8 it's about seeking power in the environment, to control the environment so it doesn't control you.
    If you look at Richard Rohr's book, he says that the sexual types are the gut triad, the social types are the heart triad, and the self-preservation types are the head triad. I have also read in several places that all of the gut types are power oriented. They take the feelings of aggression which power and aggression are sort of one in the same; they feel in their body and for the Eight, it is managed through overt aggression, the Nine manages through passive aggression, and the One by channeling it into socially approved ways (being next to the social/heart triad) with perfection.

    Despite what I keep hearing people say on these big personality websites all over the place, I have never seen any information that caused a light bulb to go off on how any type would be sexual or social or why, and how it all pulls together. It only made sense to me when I read Rohr's book.

    So to help you see where I am coming from, look at the most overt types in a triad, because they really speak for the rest of the triad. So for the gut types, the most overt gut type, the Eight, their biggest struggle or vice is lust, meaning they like connection, which is what all the sexual types stand for. But what the Nine and One feel, the Eight just lets it all hang out. Another example, since reading Rohr's book, look at this so-called Sexual Three. I have seen some who have the look of sex appeal and such, but even with that I believe they are dominantly a social fix, because regardless of how fixated they are on relationships, their need for trophies always rules. It seems we could go on and on getting into the nitty gritty on this.

    This is another website that I think sort of supports my philosophy. http://www.enneagram.net/subtypeschart.html

    And according to this website, if you are a sexual type, your identity is your relationship. I could never imagine a Three think this way.

    If I am wrong and somebody has some information or a way of explaining it that adds up, then I really do welcome it, because the other ways it has been explained just doesn't to me so far.
    Last edited by Newbyagain; 07-02-2013 at 11:27 AM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    If you look at Richard Rohr's book, he says that the sexual types are the gut triad, the social types are the heart triad, and the self-preservation types are the head triad. I have also read in several places that all of the gut types are power oriented. They take the feelings of aggression which power and aggression are sort of one in the same; they feel in their body and for the Eight, it is managed through overt aggression, the Nine manages through passive aggression, and the One by channeling it into socially approved ways (being next to the social/heart triad) with perfection.

    Despite what I keep hearing people say on these big personality websites all over the place, I have never seen any information that caused a light bulb to go off on how any type would be sexual or social or why, and how it all pulls together. It only made sense to me when I read Rohr's book.

    So to help you see where I am coming from, look at the most overt types in a triad, because they really speak for the rest of the triad. So for the gut types, the most overt gut type, the Eight, their biggest struggle or vice is lust, meaning they like connection, which is what all the sexual types stand for. But what the Nine and One feel, the Eight just lets it all hang out. Another example, since reading Rohr's book, look at this so-called Sexual Three. I have seen some who have the look of sex appeal and such, but even with that I believe they are dominantly a social fix, because regardless of how fixated they are on relationships, their need for trophies always rules. It seems we could go on and on getting into the nitty gritty on this.

    This is another website that I think sort of supports my philosophy. http://www.enneagram.net/subtypeschart.html

    And according to this website, if you are a sexual type, your identity is your relationship. I could never imagine a Three think this way.

    If I am wrong and somebody has some information or a way of explaining it that adds up, then I really do welcome it, because the other ways it has been explained just doesn't to me so far.
    I think the simplest explanation here is simply that they operate on different definitions of power and sexual. I have not read Rohr but what he suggests (assuming you understand him correctly based on what you write here) is not in line with general enneagram theory. I don't adhere to any specific school exactly, but when we talk about the sexual instinct it's not about lust or sex or anything of the sort. It's about energy, what drives us and the points of focus that come with it. Did you look closer at the link you provided yourself from Katherine Fauvre? She specifically gives brief descriptions how the subtypes affect each core type at the bottom. Looks like you overlooked it.

    And of course 3s can be relationships-focused just as any human being can. A sexual type 3 would focus their need for image recognition and deceit towards the sexual, so they would probably shape themselves according to the partners they find attractive so these people will find them attractive in turn, for example.

    I really can't be bothered to explain more than this. You just seem to severely misunderstand how the instincts operate.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    I think the simplest explanation here is simply that they operate on different definitions of power and sexual. I have not read Rohr but what he suggests (assuming you understand him correctly based on what you write here) is not in line with general enneagram theory. I don't adhere to any specific school exactly, but when we talk about the sexual instinct it's not about lust or sex or anything of the sort. It's about energy, what drives us and the points of focus that come with it. Did you look closer at the link you provided yourself from Katherine Fauvre? She specifically gives brief descriptions how the subtypes affect each core type at the bottom. Looks like you overlooked it.

    And of course 3s can be relationships-focused just as any human being can. A sexual type 3 would focus their need for image recognition and deceit towards the sexual, so they would probably shape themselves according to the partners they find attractive so these people will find them attractive in turn, for example.

    I really can't be bothered to explain more than this. You just seem to severely misunderstand how the instincts operate.
    This is all theory and my theory. Nobody is the king of the Enneagram. And no I did not overlook the bottom. The bottom part says points, not types. We all have a little of everything in us.

    The sexual instinct is related to sex. Sex is a physical act. Gut people are very physical in nature and people of the sexual instinct, sex is an important part of their life because that is where they find connection.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    This is all theory and my theory. Nobody is the king of the Enneagram. And no I did not overlook the bottom. The bottom part says points, not types. We all have a little of everything in us.

    The sexual instinct is related to sex. Sex is a physical act. Gut people are very physical in nature and people of the sexual instinct, sex is an important part of their life because that is where they find connection.
    You clearly weren't looking enough. Notice the numbers that I marked in red:


    The comment "point concerns" simply describes the points of focus for each enneatype and how the instinctual energy is shaped and shapes the enneatypes. As a sexual 5, I am concerned about connecting with people through knowledge. I seek intimates by utilizing knowledge. It's really not that complicated.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    You clearly weren't looking enough. Notice the numbers that I marked in red:


    The comment "point concerns" simply describes the points of focus for each enneatype and how the instinctual energy is shaped and shapes the enneatypes. As a sexual 5, I am concerned about connecting with people through knowledge. I seek intimates by utilizing knowledge. It's really not that complicated.
    No, I did read it. I said I have my theory. It's nothing worth getting hostile and rude over.

    Advice for Type Fives:

    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    ― Socrates

    “Confidence is ignorance. If you're feeling cocky, it's because there's something you don't know.”
    ― Eoin Colfer, Artemis Fowl

    “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
    ― Stephen Hawking

    “The possession of knowledge does not kill the sense of wonder and mystery. There is always more mystery.”
    ― Anaïs Nin

    “The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.”
    ― Confucius

    “Reading furnishes the mind only with materials of knowledge; it is thinking that makes what we read ours.”
    ― John Locke

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    My favorte form of power is "will"-power. The will is the world mover. It's what makes stuff happen. Even the creation itself, assuming it sprang from a mental force, was moved by the will of a divine mind.

    Other forms of power though, like the mass control of sheep, are devoid of good purpose and accomplish nothing but affliction.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    No, I did read it. I said I have my theory. It's nothing worth getting hostile and rude over.
    So if I point out a clear contradiction of yours, I am hostile? The sx instinct is not all about sex. That is misunderstanding what sx as an instinctual energy is in my opinion. Sx is about finding an intimate partner and one way you can be intimate with someone else is to have sex, but it's definitely not the only way you can be intimate. Also, gut types aren't necessarily interested in sex or seek sex. That is not what makes them gut types.

    You are free to have your own theory but your theory is clearly inconsistent with the actual body of knowledge that is written about the instincts.

    Also, had I been in a more pissy mood I might have taken offense by the fact that you think these people represent 5s or 5-ness with those quotes. I think it shows a poor conceptual understanding of what it means to be a type 5. That you have the audacity to then consider me hostile and rude is quite ironic as such but whatever.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  10. #20
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Type 2, 5 and 8 are the power-seekers in the enneagram. What does it mean to be a power-seeker? What does it mean to be in possession of power? How does this power-seek manifest in the three types?
    I equate power with agency and independence.

    Also, another thing to think about is that type 5 integrates towards 8, 8 integrates towards 2 but two integrates towards 4. Why not back to type 5?
    2s are kind of the wild card to me in this set, and they are probably the e-type into whom I have the least insight. One theory that's always held a lot of interest for me is that of the integration point also being the individual's "inner child". 2s power-seeking on an emotional/social plane through the creation of dependency in those around them does seem to map onto the average 4's tendency towards emotional control. Thinking of 2s as 4s on the inside also lends motivation to their intense desire to be loved. It suggests that at their innermost they are keenly aware of their individuality, what makes them special, and rejection of their love and attention is tantamount to a denial of those qualities. So the average 2 really loves no one so much as they love themselves, and insecurity drives them to control the responses of those around them to that self. Integrating to 4 is like the 2 basically them being secure enough for them to let their freak flag fly without need for external validation. More briefly, 2s integrate to 4 by learning to love themselves.

    That's my theory at least.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

Similar Threads

  1. I can control the world with the power of my mind...
    By The Ü™ in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 08:07 PM
  2. Power of Thought
    By Metamorphosis in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-29-2008, 09:34 PM
  3. Screech Powers = INTP?
    By FFF in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-12-2007, 01:44 AM
  4. Suicide and social power
    By labyrinthine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-04-2007, 03:04 AM
  5. Do you believe in a higher power?
    By ygolo in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-03-2007, 08:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO