• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Let's discuss your experiences that just don't match up with the Enneagram

Dying Acedia

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
35
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Really anything you've read from some high-profile "reputable" source that just seems off applies here. This is a thread for disputing any part of the theory with your experiences. Even areas you feel the Enneagram should cover but doesn't. Feel free to PM me if you are uncomfortable and don't want your type to be challenged. I won't go there unless you ask me to. I'm just interested in collecting information.

I haven't written much on this forum yet, but this'll help give me an idea of what might be worth writing about.
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
5,059
MBTI Type
INtp
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'll start. I identify as 5w6

Sometimes I wonder about wing theory. It seems to work well for me and I can see influences from both the 4 and 6 wings with 6 being slightly dominant. But there are several people who claim not to relate to either wing.

I find that the points of integration/disintegration don't match up with my type. I don't see much integration to 8 on my part or I'm just not aware of it. I do some connection to 7, but it feels more like integration rather than disintegration.

Sometimes I wonder about tritypes. I think they can explain in part why you identify alot with a type that's not your core type. The issue I have with it is that there has to be one head, one heart, and one gut type. What if you don't identify much at all with one of the centers?

I've thought about stackings for centers. Like head/heart/gut would be someone who's dominant head, secondary heart, and lastly gut.
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
I too believe integration/disintegration are backwards. As an 8, When I'm insecure I try to whip out my Fe/E2 to fit in and it just goes horribly horribly wrong. When I think, "ah f*** it" and make no effort to join the group, people tend to gravitate toward me instead. However integration disintegration tends to happen in cycles with me. I retreat, people come to me, I feel appreciated for this and start to get more socially self confident and move toward 2. I advance and start trying to connect with people and they push me back down to 5 when I get hurt. Then I have to build myself back up again. This cycle sorta happens over the course of a year or so depending on circumstances.

Also, I find people attack me most when I am in E2 "I just wanna get to know you" mode, which is frustrating and tends to push me toward being more anti-social, so I have to stand back up and try again. I fucking hate people.
 

mintleaf

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
505
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp
I also don't relate to the integration and disintegration points. Of all the types, I'm probably least like 3, and that's not because I'm unhealthy. My unhealthy self looks more like a 5w6 (in my tritype) to me, and when healthy I just look like a healthy 9. :shrug:

I'm not completely sold on the validity of instinctual stackings, either. I don't have much in the way of productive commentary to contribute, but yeah. Thought I'd just bring that up.

And I don't really like the heart/head/gut distinctions. They seem primitive. Maybe I just don't understand the theory or maybe it's because I'm a 9, but I couldn't begin to tell you in what order I deal with shame, anger, and fear.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
The order of the points completely. The reason why 1 is the Perfectionist and 6 is the Loyalist and so on. I've read theories, but they all seem ad-hoc and backronymesque.
 

Entropic

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
This sums up my thoughts exactly when it comes to the critique against the integration/disintegration points:
We do not develop in the Direction of Integration by imitating the personality traits of that type. That is, a Six will not integrate by trying to imitate a Nine. That would just be the personality up to some new tricks. However, as we work on the issues of our own type with awareness, and the defenses of our personality begin to loosen, the Direction of Integration indicates healthy qualities that will begin to manifest in our attitudes and behaviors. For instance, When a Six starts to explore the roots of his fears and anxieties, he naturally will begin to open to the serenity and openness of a healthy Nine. As an Eight lets down her guard and allows herself to experience her vulnerability, she will naturally begin to feel her empathy and affection for others like a healthy Two. Unfortunately, this issue has led to quite a lot of confusion and misinterpretation in Enneagram circles.
 
W

WALMART

Guest
I do not care for the integration/disintegration points squarely because they are geometrically derived. It works as a general stroke of conceptual thought (like MBTI) but people place far too much emphasis on the hard sets of the system (like function order).
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This sums up my thoughts exactly when it comes to the critique against the integration/disintegration points:

Not a critique of you in the least, just of the world in general... I'm even wondering why something so basic needs to even be explained, it seems intrinsic to the discussion. You shouldn't even have to note this.

I mean, why would a Six become a Nine? How non-sensical. The whole idea is that you are a particular archetype, and then you start expressing traits IN YOUR OWN PARtICULAR TYPE that are typically strengths of other types. I think the same thing happens in MBTI as well -- you have a core self but you start becoming well-rounded and develop various function attributes without losing who you already are. So you still are "you" but those new capabilities accentuate your behavior and life approach. One type with a trait still looks different (to some degree) than another type with the same trait.

But I also agree with Jon, in that there is just too much of people saying things have to work a certain way. We don't use it descriptively, we use it prescriptively. Type is just a particular framework we use to explore and improve ourselves. It gives us probable avenues to explore, to save us time and help us more quickly grow, vs other probably less-fruitful directions. Instead we see people arguing about who is what type; what functions you're allowed to have; the direction you have to go to mature; and so forth. It's one reason I don't talk type much anymore. It's only supposed to have been a tool.
 

Dying Acedia

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
35
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The order of the points completely. The reason why 1 is the Perfectionist and 6 is the Loyalist and so on. I've read theories, but they all seem ad-hoc and backronymesque.

From my understanding, it stems from the type 9 (as we know it) being at the crown of the Enneagram because 9's passion (of acedia/sloth) is fundamental, and is the background of all other passions. From there, since each type is a mixture of its wing points, 8 and 1 have to be adjacent to 9, and from that 2 to 1, 7 to 8, and so forth. That still leaves two arrangements, depending on where you put 1 and 8. Fairly arbitrary at that point, but I think the idea is that 5-6-7-8 comparatively follow a "left-handed" path whereas 1-2-3-4 comparatively a "right-handed."

Aside from the last point I've elaborated on all of the above, plus why the symbol is designed as it is, here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/62053-discussion-symbol-triangle-hexad-circle.html


This sums up my thoughts exactly when it comes to the critique against the integration/disintegration points:
We do not develop in the Direction of Integration by imitating the personality traits of that type. That is, a Six will not integrate by trying to imitate a Nine. That would just be the personality up to some new tricks. However, as we work on the issues of our own type with awareness, and the defenses of our personality begin to loosen, the Direction of Integration indicates healthy qualities that will begin to manifest in our attitudes and behaviors. For instance, When a Six starts to explore the roots of his fears and anxieties, he naturally will begin to open to the serenity and openness of a healthy Nine. As an Eight lets down her guard and allows herself to experience her vulnerability, she will naturally begin to feel her empathy and affection for others like a healthy Two. Unfortunately, this issue has led to quite a lot of confusion and misinterpretation in Enneagram circles.

Yeah, all of this, including the emphasis by bolding. I think people don't understand what all's meant by integration/disintegration. Perhaps this is the fault of R&H's way of putting it in the past, but regardless, there's misunderstanding.

For the record I still hold to the view I laid out in my maths of the Enneagram thread. I've just been trying to pull good arguments against it out of the woodwork.
 

PrettyWoman

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
45
MBTI Type
E..P
Enneagram
728
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Enneagram does not seem to allow enough space for changes in mental health levels, growth and so on.

Healthy individuals are not necessarily as stereotypical examples of their type and also unhealthy individuals might seem to be something else than they are.
 

Typh0n

clever fool
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
3,497
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The function on levels of health is annoying...why refer to it as being "healthy" when you can refer to it as being happy. Personal happiness is more important than what some experts say is healthy.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I didn't exactly "fit in" in high school. I think 3s are supposed to have done that.

The rock-paper-scissors thing that integration/disintegration points have doesn't make any damned sense, no.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I relate more to the 5w6 description than any MBTI type or DSMV disorder.
 
B

brainheart

Guest
The idea that your instinct stacking stays the same your whole life and that you have a very obvious blindspot. I think different instincts become more pronounced at different times of life depending on the circumstance and need and you learn to balance these out as you age. (I think the manifestation of the instincts is fairly type-specific, however; in other words, a five will be under the social haze in a social five way, etc.)

I also think that as you get older and ideally more integrated you become a less obvious core type which can make typing problematic and, to an extent, a moot point.
 
Top