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  1. #1
    Member Dying Acedia's Avatar
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    Default Let's discuss your experiences that just don't match up with the Enneagram

    Really anything you've read from some high-profile "reputable" source that just seems off applies here. This is a thread for disputing any part of the theory with your experiences. Even areas you feel the Enneagram should cover but doesn't. Feel free to PM me if you are uncomfortable and don't want your type to be challenged. I won't go there unless you ask me to. I'm just interested in collecting information.

    I haven't written much on this forum yet, but this'll help give me an idea of what might be worth writing about.

  2. #2
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I'll start. I identify as 5w6

    Sometimes I wonder about wing theory. It seems to work well for me and I can see influences from both the 4 and 6 wings with 6 being slightly dominant. But there are several people who claim not to relate to either wing.

    I find that the points of integration/disintegration don't match up with my type. I don't see much integration to 8 on my part or I'm just not aware of it. I do some connection to 7, but it feels more like integration rather than disintegration.

    Sometimes I wonder about tritypes. I think they can explain in part why you identify alot with a type that's not your core type. The issue I have with it is that there has to be one head, one heart, and one gut type. What if you don't identify much at all with one of the centers?

    I've thought about stackings for centers. Like head/heart/gut would be someone who's dominant head, secondary heart, and lastly gut.
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  3. #3
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    I too believe integration/disintegration are backwards. As an 8, When I'm insecure I try to whip out my Fe/E2 to fit in and it just goes horribly horribly wrong. When I think, "ah f*** it" and make no effort to join the group, people tend to gravitate toward me instead. However integration disintegration tends to happen in cycles with me. I retreat, people come to me, I feel appreciated for this and start to get more socially self confident and move toward 2. I advance and start trying to connect with people and they push me back down to 5 when I get hurt. Then I have to build myself back up again. This cycle sorta happens over the course of a year or so depending on circumstances.

    Also, I find people attack me most when I am in E2 "I just wanna get to know you" mode, which is frustrating and tends to push me toward being more anti-social, so I have to stand back up and try again. I fucking hate people.

  4. #4
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    I also don't relate to the integration and disintegration points. Of all the types, I'm probably least like 3, and that's not because I'm unhealthy. My unhealthy self looks more like a 5w6 (in my tritype) to me, and when healthy I just look like a healthy 9.

    I'm not completely sold on the validity of instinctual stackings, either. I don't have much in the way of productive commentary to contribute, but yeah. Thought I'd just bring that up.

    And I don't really like the heart/head/gut distinctions. They seem primitive. Maybe I just don't understand the theory or maybe it's because I'm a 9, but I couldn't begin to tell you in what order I deal with shame, anger, and fear.

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  6. #6
    Member Dying Acedia's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've heard a lot of people dispute the integration/disintegration lines.

    Have you guys read this from R&H: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ar...p#.UX5pHbVwokO ?

    Apparently not even R&H are on board with them being up&down integration anymore. They still call them that, but the way they do is more like the idea of stress and security.

  7. #7
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    The order of the points completely. The reason why 1 is the Perfectionist and 6 is the Loyalist and so on. I've read theories, but they all seem ad-hoc and backronymesque.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    This sums up my thoughts exactly when it comes to the critique against the integration/disintegration points:
    We do not develop in the Direction of Integration by imitating the personality traits of that type. That is, a Six will not integrate by trying to imitate a Nine. That would just be the personality up to some new tricks. However, as we work on the issues of our own type with awareness, and the defenses of our personality begin to loosen, the Direction of Integration indicates healthy qualities that will begin to manifest in our attitudes and behaviors. For instance, When a Six starts to explore the roots of his fears and anxieties, he naturally will begin to open to the serenity and openness of a healthy Nine. As an Eight lets down her guard and allows herself to experience her vulnerability, she will naturally begin to feel her empathy and affection for others like a healthy Two. Unfortunately, this issue has led to quite a lot of confusion and misinterpretation in Enneagram circles.

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  9. #9
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    I do not care for the integration/disintegration points squarely because they are geometrically derived. It works as a general stroke of conceptual thought (like MBTI) but people place far too much emphasis on the hard sets of the system (like function order).

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    This sums up my thoughts exactly when it comes to the critique against the integration/disintegration points:
    Not a critique of you in the least, just of the world in general... I'm even wondering why something so basic needs to even be explained, it seems intrinsic to the discussion. You shouldn't even have to note this.

    I mean, why would a Six become a Nine? How non-sensical. The whole idea is that you are a particular archetype, and then you start expressing traits IN YOUR OWN PARtICULAR TYPE that are typically strengths of other types. I think the same thing happens in MBTI as well -- you have a core self but you start becoming well-rounded and develop various function attributes without losing who you already are. So you still are "you" but those new capabilities accentuate your behavior and life approach. One type with a trait still looks different (to some degree) than another type with the same trait.

    But I also agree with Jon, in that there is just too much of people saying things have to work a certain way. We don't use it descriptively, we use it prescriptively. Type is just a particular framework we use to explore and improve ourselves. It gives us probable avenues to explore, to save us time and help us more quickly grow, vs other probably less-fruitful directions. Instead we see people arguing about who is what type; what functions you're allowed to have; the direction you have to go to mature; and so forth. It's one reason I don't talk type much anymore. It's only supposed to have been a tool.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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