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  1. #11
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Read Flatlander's post why this isn't possible. It's the same reason why you'd need to Fe if you're an Fi type. You already have a preference so why would you do both? It's just counter-intuitive for your psyche. Why deal with anxiety in both a 5 and 7 way if your core type is 5? You already got a defense mechanism that works.
    I figure that, but I was looking at the instinctual variants as corresponding to the three FIRO areas (Inclusion, Control and Affection; the parallel is too striking to ignore), and that would be another way to explain variation in the types.
    Like how about having three of those tritype dynamics; one for each area, and you would still have the dominant variant (the one people wear next to the E number) as the area they're strongest in, and the core type? In other words, head, heart and gut would be divided between surface social skills, leadership and self preservation, and deep relationships.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  2. #12
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    This new system is poop. The original is where the goods are at. Epic super tripple-whopper go! And no, the meat doesn't all come from the same mutilated cow, and make sure your stackings don't either.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I figure that, but I was looking at the instinctual variants as corresponding to the three FIRO areas (Inclusion, Control and Affection; the parallel is too striking to ignore), and that would be another way to explain variation in the types.
    Like how about having three of those tritype dynamics; one for each area, and you would still have the dominant variant (the one people wear next to the E number) as the area they're strongest in, and the core type? In other words, head, heart and gut would be divided between surface social skills, leadership and self preservation, and deep relationships.
    Reading up in this FIRO theory I can safely say there's no correlation whatsoever between the theories because FIRO deals with interpersonal behavior, instincts do not. Instincts has to do with where we project our energy in order to provide ourselves with a sense of safety. Social firsts do it by being strongly attuned to the social nature of human beings, self-preservation focus their energy on sustaining themselves and sexual firsts focus their energy on finding intimates. You can be any of these FIRO types and be any instinctual variant.

    Why confuse an already good theory with a theory that tries to explain something entirely different when it's clear you don't even understand the former in depth? You can't modify something and expect great results if you don't understand what it is you are in fact modifying.

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  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I just saw a parallel in the names, and I realized that the variants were describing some different kind of dynamic, so I haven't really pushed a hard correlation. I just said it would be nice if they were used as separate need areas.
    Last edited by Eric B; 04-14-2013 at 07:19 AM.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I just saw a parallel in the names, ad I realized that the variants were describing some different kind of dynamic, so I haven't really pushed a hard correlation. I just said it would be nice if they were used as separate need areas.
    That's not what you insuniated. Don't mess with things you don't know what you're messing with.

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  6. #16
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Personally, I could say, "Tritype is a bunch of bull" and just deal with my core. A lot of things are explained by being a type 8, and my connections to 2 and 5. It is clear that I have pride and avarice, and these are ways I deal with shame and fear. Pride feels like an integration, though.



    Still, do I really need tritype? I've had some incredibly 4ish moments where I dealt with shame in a MUCH more uncomfortable way rather than an integration.


    But 4 is also the "inverse" of 8 according to Naranjo. He says lust is repressed envy. So is that an explanation? In my case, it could be. It all fits together neatly considering my third fix is 5.

    But then what happens with core types 5 and 4? What about the fact that a 5 has a line to 7 (mind) and 8 (gut) but no heart? Does this mean a 5 has no heart, and emotion and shame doesn't play in to their personality at all? How would you say a typical 5 deals with shame? Are they all the same? Or would differences between them make sense because of tritype?

    What about 4? They have a line to heart and gut, but no mind. Does this mean 4s don't think, or they don't have any anxiety? Does it mean every 4 deals with fear & thinking the exact same way? Do 4s have no fear and no mind at all? How would you explain this?

    When you look at enneagram as a whole, it becomes clear that the whole thing would make less sense without tritype. Without a connection to mind/anxiety/fear, heart/emotion/shame, and gut/will/body/anger, a person just isn't whole. Tritype gives EVERYONE some presence of all of these things, and a particular way of handling it; rather than just the types that happen to have lines connecting them to all the other types.

    To be specific, type 7 and 5 have no connecting line to heart, and type 2 and 4 have no connecting line to mind. So if you toss out tritype, are you prepared to explain how 7s and 5s deal with heart & shame, and how 2s and 4s deal with mind & fear? Is this universal?

    As a gut type, we all have a line connecting us directly to heart and mind, so it may be easier for a gut-type to say "tritype is bullshit" - but think about the whole enneagram and whether or not that makes sense for everyone.
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  7. #17
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    That's not what you insuniated. Don't mess with things you don't know what you're messing with.
    I didn't insinuate anything beyond what I said. Now you should cool it with this when you claim you're Ti dom. in MBTI and Fi dom in Jung/Socionics. (And your posts are seeming more and more genuinely T in either system).
    It's all theory, and is malleable, so people can propose anything they want.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #18
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I didn't insinuate anything beyond what I said. Now you should cool it with this when you claim you're Ti dom. in MBTI and Fi dom in Jung/Socionics. (And your posts are seeming more and more genuinely T in either system).
    It's all theory, and is malleable, so people can propose anything they want.
    Of course it's T, but it's Jungian Te, not Ti. And just because my posts seem T, it doesn't mean it's my dominant function. I just express myself a lot through T.

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    I disagree that this is the way to solve the tritype problem. Mostly, I don't see the system of having one type from every center as inelegant or slap-dash. In fact, when I learned about tritype, that aspect made a lot of logical sense to me. Within the centers, there are three key emotions that all humans share and ultimately have different reactions too: anger (conflict), fear/anxiety, shame (pride). I believe that the core type is the most important aspect of the Enneagram in terms of growth and personal understanding. But, there are more pieces to me besides this "fear" that rules a type 5. I accept the fact that Enneagram can't explain everything, but I can't deny there is a specific way I handle anger and conflict, and another specific way I deal with shame. And giving me the only options of 594, 582 and 513 doesn't work for me. I can accept a 9-fix, but there is no way I have a 4-fix. I have a 8-fix, but there is no way I have a 2-fix. I have a 3-fix, but there is no way I'm a 1-fixer. 4, 2, and 1 are the type I relate to the least. So this new system has no place for me, and therein lies the problem.

    Now, I love to use the triads in conjunction with tritype, to understand now triadic dynamics will affect a core type. Using triads and my tritype of 538, I am what you could call a pragmatic or assertive 5, or I have even seen it called an aggressive 5, but I don't think the term "aggressive" represents it well.

    I have to cut this short, because I have to go to work. But I'll take more about this later.
    Great points.

    the approach in the OP may have general descriptive value...but it doesn't pass muster with me as being refined enough since the fixes are contextualized in a bunch of triads that don't have do with the centers of intelligence

    once you make it about choosing 1 fix from each center the "triadic spine" of it becomes the image/head/gut

  10. #20
    brainheart
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    Yeah, I agree my theory has plenty of flaws. I was just puking an idea; I apologize for releasing my digestive juices on to the forum. (I should really stick to fiction writing...)

    That said, I'm still not wild about tritype.

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