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  1. #1
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Default How to differentiate between social anxiety/shyness and soc last?

    What the title says. I am for example reading this thread because I am really trying to get a better grasp of the soc instinct:

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...6#.UU3HR1eRfXI

    However, I constantly see people mentioning social anxiety and shyness and to a degree introversion in relation to why they are soc last. The only other time seemed to be related to grasping historical connections but I am not sure being able to cognitively grasp the background for WWI is a true indication of the soc instinct or not. I mean, I understand it but I can't say that beyond understanding it that these things are interesting, relevant or something I pay attention to. Not in history or in present day time.

    Also, I'm not suffering from shyness or social anxiety. I do however fail to understand this sense of "belongingness" that was described to be indicative of strong soc, that you're a part of something greater.

    My rationale would thus be this: that a person who still has this sense but is too shy/socially anxious to seek it out would still be a soc first or second, yes? As is usual with our dominant instinct, we feel a certain lack or need if we do not fulfill or satisfy it properly and neuroticism could also appear in relation to our instincts by being afraid of it.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
    there, there Title's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure social anxiety makes more sense for so-first people, because they care enough about it to actually get anxious I agree with your rationale whole-heartedly; as a so-first (maybe second) person, it's something I've been through a lot.
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  3. #3
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    Good question. I do have quite high social anxiety, and I'm probably SO second. Even though I'm naturally introverted and do not need too much approval from others, I assume I have a fear of being negatively judged from needing some kind of acceptance, which is where the anxiety comes in. I'll agree that people with high SO are more inclined to this than the others.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Title View Post
    I'm pretty sure social anxiety makes more sense for so-first people, because they care enough about it to actually get anxious I agree with your rationale whole-heartedly; as a so-first (maybe second) person, it's something I've been through a lot.
    Good points. I can experience panic attacks when I'm out and I get overwhelmed by stimuli but I don't suffer from agrophobia. Just that sometimes after having an exhausting day I just need to get away from everyone and everything and sit in my sofa and do nothing.

    Is there any person the forum who suffers from severe shyness/social anxiety and is identified and confirmed as soc last and is willing to explain how it works? I'd be very curious to hear. I can see the connection between the two but I wonder how it truly operates.

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    I think a certain degree of shyness or social discomfort can result from being a loner who's not used to being in social situations. Maybe if you're social last, the discomfort would be more about being in a new situation and not being sure how to handle the situation than directly about your image and how others see you (which would be the case for So-first or second).

    I wouldn't say I'm particularly shy, but I do often feel slightly uncomfortable when I'm in a social situation because it forces me to be more extraverted, which I'm not used to. I don't consciously worry about my social image or making mistakes. Although I may feel like an idiot afterward if I say something really stupid or awkward. I'm not immune to that.

  6. #6
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    However, I constantly see people mentioning social anxiety and shyness and to a degree introversion in relation to why they are soc last. The only other time seemed to be related to grasping historical connections but I am not sure being able to cognitively grasp the background for WWI is a true indication of the soc instinct or not. I mean, I understand it but I can't say that beyond understanding it that these things are interesting, relevant or something I pay attention to. Not in history or in present day time.
    To the first, I'm not shy, only reserved, and I'm SO-dom (as you know). As for social anxiety, I have felt this to some extent, nothing major, and mostly when I was young. How it manifests is just this feeling of being overwhelmed. I don't know what I'm supposed to say or what I'm supposed to do, in a lot of situations. Other people seem to do it with such ease; I must have missed that day in Kindergarten when they taught social skills. I think this stems from the core 5 and inferior Fe. I've gotten better at faking it, but I still suck at Fe.

    As for historical connections, I don't think the ability to grasp them is indicative of SO dominance, but the interest in them may be. Personally, studying and understanding social, cultural, linguistic and historical, and political connections are fascinating to me. In hindsight, it's not surprising that I became a linguist, and the fields of linguistics that draw me even less surprising. Whenever I had a literature or short story class in college, I loved when the professor laid out that background for the story, because it gave me a framework to better understand the story.

    Also, I'm not suffering from shyness or social anxiety. I do however fail to understand this sense of "belongingness" that was described to be indicative of strong soc, that you're a part of something greater.
    See this part that people often associate with SO, being part of something "greater" or "larger"...it's too broad for me. I do have a sense of belonging to my family, but the latter, I don't really identify with that. I don't need to be part of something "greater" than myself, but I need to fulfill that desire for belonging. I don't think it's something "larger" or "greater".

    My rationale would thus be this: that a person who still has this sense but is too shy/socially anxious to seek it out would still be a soc first or second, yes? As is usual with our dominant instinct, we feel a certain lack or need if we do not fulfill or satisfy it properly and neuroticism could also appear in relation to our instincts by being afraid of it.
    Depends. I would say my 5 detachment often deters me from fulfilling my SO needs, but I don't think it's "shyness" that deters me. Not really "social anxiety" either, but it can be argued that a 5's detachment stems from anxiety. I don't really feel "social anxiety" in that specific sense is what does it. It's much deeper than that.

  7. #7
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    I'm so-last and I am very shy. However, I've never taken my shyness to be a reflection on my instinctual stackings. I'm shy because I'm quiet and introverted (not just in the Jungian sense) and don't usually have much to say to people until I get to know them better, and I tend to perceive those things as defects in myself that I'm self-conscious about.

    On the other hand, I believe I'm so-last because I don't cultivate group membership or merge with and promote community agenda in order to fulfill my primary need for security. I'm more apt instead to seek out personal and targeted connections with people and activities.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    @madhatter thanks for that post. I can't respond in length but I agree that core type probably plays a large role, so does the MBTI. I've never been blessed with social grace as I can be very crass and blunt and I've always felt people seemed to make social connections with such ease compared to I. It's probably because I'm a 5 that I experience it this way and while I don't seek a sense of community like a soc first I do seek what I think are deep and meaningful relationships. It's also interesting how I became a social anthropologist but my study foci are on very narrow subjects related to my personal interests e.g. music and the studies tend to focus why people like music.

    I do think my interest in typology and anthropology could be to help me cover my blind spot though.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I do think my interest in typology and anthropology could be to help me cover my blind spot though.
    What kind of anthropology?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    What kind of anthropology?
    Social/cultural.

    Basically my logic goes; I don't get this person but it's because they are X type so it's ok that I don't. Not sure if that's something you relate to.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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