Questions for Type 2s and 4s...

[Newbyagain]

I can't figure out if I am a Two or Four.

If you are a Two, how did you find out or how did you know? Did you first think you were a Four, maybe especially if you are an NF type? If you are a Four, or I guess Two for that matter, do you relate to these struggles?

When I am healthy, I feel like I can be happily generous and not want anything in return other than to have a nice interconnection with the outside world. When I am unhealthy I find myself withdrawn, sad, reading too much stuff online, but I probably do that a little when I'm content too, and maybe in a quiet type of way doing things for attention, like maybe being more aggressive in making a friend (not in good ways), getting a guy's attention, rather than letting him come to me or attract him in. When I am healthy though, I get quite ashamed of this behavior, possibly even a little neurotic at times, beating myself up over how I perceive myself (maybe this is more of an inbetween stage), and when I'm really healthy I see myself feel good about alluring or charming someone, rather than making myself available, although at the same time I'll be understanding, accepting, and generous if it's somebody I really like.

One reason why I am unsure is because sometimes I'll look at a photo of myself and depending on how I am beating myself up or liking myself will be how I percieve myself. Today I looked at myself online and I was in this self-conscious mood and I immediately thought, "look how desperate I look for attention, look how boring I am, I have no REAL character, I must be a Two." And I wonder, don't Fours and Twos struggle with identity? Fours because of their emotions, and Twos because they get caught up in meeting other people's demands over their own? I also don't feel like I have ever been that good at sacraficing my needs for someone else. Only when mine are completely met, will I even consider offering. I don't ever offer people a hand if they are moving, I wouldn't dare babysit someone else's kids for free unless it is my turn or they just really need the help. I really don't like putting my emotions, mood, cognitive energy, or anything to the side unless I have to or, actually when I'm healthy, usually only coming from feeling like I am in a good uplifting loving relationship, which has only been a few times in my life, or maybe having extremely caring and uplifting friends could do it. It's amazing what the other half can do for me. I have sooo much more potential if I am being lifted up by the right person.

I just really want to know because I recently got dumped and just when I think I understand who I am and this guy doesn't matter, somehow his insults start to eat at my identity and I start questioning who I am and maybe I was just born to be these bad things that I am perceiving in myself. Maybe I am terribly ashamed of these Two qualities because that is the weak side of Four, where a regular Two does not perceive these qualities as mortifyingly humilating.

Here's another helpful clue, I think. After somebody treating you like complete trash, despite being so in love on both ends, (yes I know that doesn't sound like it makes sense, but it's an unhealthy 8 were talking about) would it be more common for a Two or Four to go nuts on his ass? Yes, I went nuts, and no shame. He needed a good tearing up. I didn't do it right away, I gave him a good six months to get his head straight, but he started flirting with girls online in front of me, probably some on purpose, which I had a serious problem with.

 

[Entropic]

I see nothing conclusive that would weigh for or against 2 or 4. It's more useful if you'd look into the motivations such as comparing pride and envy.

 

[Newbyagain]

I see nothing conclusive that would weigh for or against 2 or 4. It's more useful if you'd look into the motivations such as comparing pride and envy.

Hmmm... Okay, thanks. I have a hard time reading myself. I see both pride and envy. It seems both sort of have to do with eachother. You are envious until you get what you want and then when you get it you are proud... I don't know, but I'll consider that. My mom is a 2 and my dad is a 4 so maybe I have quite a bit of both. Thanks.

 

[Entropic]

Hmmm... Okay, thanks. I have a hard time reading myself. I see both pride and envy. It seems both sort of have to do with eachother. You are envious until you get what you want and then when you get it you are proud... I don't know, but I'll consider that. My mom is a 2 and my dad is a 4 so maybe I have quite a bit of both. Thanks.

Envy doesn't always have to be until you get what you meant. I'd say that's more pride logic. Envy is more defined as a lack of something, that you which you do not possess. The mind of the envious does not stop envying because they get what they want. Then they simply start to envy other things. Let's make a simple example:

A woman is in her 30s and she's having a decent job with decent pay and lives a decent life. One of her friends is seeing someone and suddenly tells the woman she is going to get married. The mind of the envious will envy the friend because she is getting married and the woman is not getting married. So let's assume we fast-forward a bit. The woman is seeing someone and they decided to marry. Now the friend is getting a child. The woman is again envious because she does not have a child and so on.

Alternatively, counter-envy can take the form of "I'm too good for this" attitude. For example so if we use the example with the woman in the above, the woman could if she's counter-envious say, "I don't need marriage. I'm too good for marriage and I can manage on my own without a husband. I'm better than that. I'll show them how I don't need a man".

 

[Newbyagain]

Envy doesn't always have to be until you get what you meant. I'd say that's more pride logic. Envy is more defined as a lack of something, that you which you do not possess. The mind of the envious does not stop envying because they get what they want. Then they simply start to envy other things. Let's make a simple example:

A woman is in her 30s and she's having a decent job with decent pay and lives a decent life. One of her friends is seeing someone and suddenly tells the woman she is going to get married. The mind of the envious will envy the friend because she is getting married and the woman is not getting married. So let's assume we fast-forward a bit. The woman is seeing someone and they decided to marry. Now the friend is getting a child. The woman is again envious because she does not have a child and so on.

Alternatively, counter-envy can take the form of "I'm too good for this" attitude. For example so if we use the example with the woman in the above, the woman could if she's counter-envious say, "I don't need marriage. I'm too good for marriage and I can manage on my own without a husband. I'm better than that. I'll show them how I don't need a man".

Oh, my gosh! That counter envy makes so much sense. I have noticed that I usually don't admit that I want something, or maybe I'll start to think it and quickly shut it out and start saying things like "women like that are so typical... I'm better than to have been a professional and graduated by now, I'm more of the feminine type." That makes so much sense. Thanks for telling me that, because I have noticed that, but I have never seen anybody word it. And it seems like most Fours don't do that, or maybe it's just that I never questioned why they say such things. That is our elitism.

 

[Entropic]

Oh, my gosh! That counter envy makes so much sense. I have noticed that I usually don't admit that I want something, or maybe I'll start to think it and quickly shut it out and start saying things like "women like that are so typical... I'm better than to have been a professional and graduated by now, I'm more of the feminine type." That makes so much sense. Thanks for telling me that, because I have noticed that, but I have never seen anybody word it. And it seems like most Fours don't do that, or maybe it's just that I never questioned why they say such things. That is our elitism.

There's the story about the fox that exemplifies it well:

Once there was a fox. He was hungry. He went in search of food. He could not find any food. At last he reached a vineyard. Bunches of grapes were hanging. He wanted to get them.

His mouth began to water. The grapes were very high. He tried to get at the grapes. He jumped again and again. But all his efforts were useless. The grapes were too high for him to reach. He got tired. He was sure that he could not get the grapes. He gave up the attempt. He went away saying that the grapes were sour.