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  1. #31
    Transient Faceless Beauty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    Haha, something that amazes me about 9s and boggles my mind:

    I'll talk to a 9, and she'll say "Meh, I'm a really lazy person, I don't feel like doing much. I wish I had your drive." Then, I'll know her for a year and it will come up in conversation that she has a triple-major. Four months later I'll learn she has a really good side-job. A year later I'll find out she has a closet full of incredible paintings. But all the while the self-image is "I'm lazy."
    Lol maybe it's because there's this idea that she's doing what she feels like doing on her own time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    This happened with my ex - he would carry on about how he's not motivated enough or doesn't have the drive to do this or that. Then, I didn't see him for a year and I saw him recently and during that time, he recorded and wrote an entire album on his own on his crappy PC at home, where he recorded all the parts himself, from drums to vocals, and figured out how to mix it and use cheap equipment to get it sounding good, while working full time and giving most of his money to his parents, and playing in another band. But when he's telling me about his album, he's telling me about all the stuff that he hasn't done yet because he's lazy.
    I guess I can be the same way. I say, "I don't feel like doing x, y, and z" but in the mean time I will have gotten something else done or done a lot without realizing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    The enneagram is so beautiful as @LeaT mentioned - it's funny how 9 has this 'disconnect' from the gut and is in between a very motivated, driven type and another extremely competence-focused perfectionist type. It's like every 9 has a hidden perfectionist bulldozer inside but feels disconnected from it, so they seem modest and laid-back and non-threatening; meanwhile this hidden drive keeps the 9 going in this magical way that I can't understand for the life of me, but somehow leads to amazing accomplishments while they're not looking.
    Lol bulldozer-perfectionists. More like closeted bulldozer for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    The way you phrase this is accurate to me, haha, "when they get stuck on it." I get stuck on things like that.

    But I think 8s can learn from 9s that it's possible to care about something and do it well, without having to conquer and consume. Still, no matter how many times I see that this is possible, it will never be the way I work. I just can't imagine really putting my heart into a project without being propelled by my lust-drive. It simply doesn't register. It can become problematic when my heart isn't "in it anymore" and I have more to get done, like re-writing a book a million times for publishers, for instance. But problematic as I know it can be, I still live for that rush of the lust drive and it underlies most of my accomplishments.
    When my heart isn't in something, goodbye task. You'll stay unfinished, or I'll just put in less effort. A lack of minimal intrinsic motivation coupled with no extrinsic motivation = hard for me to actually do. Instead I'll go do something else, or sit and do nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    When you say it's why you'd have a hard time doing it, do you mean because you're worried that if you put that much energy into something, you'd eventually collapse?

    Do you find that you're able to get a lot done but you just don't approach it with consciousness of that kind of vigor?
    Basically I can get a lot done, but if I do not see a purpose, have the motivation to do so, or if something isn't meant to last or develop into anything fruitful, then I just won't put energy into it. I can easily work myself into the ground without realizing it though, and I do collapse, but then I recover and bounce back. So I don't think collapsing is really the issue. It's really what degree of long-term satisfaction or usefulness I can derive out of something if that makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    ^^ I like that - the bolded phrase is especially a turn-on to me.
    Beware, those are two major parts of my vocabulary.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."-Roger Kint, The Usual Suspects
    "You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    ENTJ, LIE-Ni, 9w8-6w5-3w2

  2. #32
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    A good question.

    I identify as 5w6 not out of a certain resonance but really because I felt I needed to topple to one side or another; I find myself more of the empirical type rather than the dreamy philosopher. But with 4...I have a tragic, melancholy aspect of my psyche that as much as I try to repress/ignore, just feels too good to indulge. I’d even go as far as to say through that tragic, “emo” pathway is where I can most often and readily tap in to awe. I have an aesthetic and philosophical fascination with destruction, dismantling, and rebirth, which I think is symmetric with the 4’s feelings of having been broken, but emerging special. However, I’d say this tragic psyche has a lot to do being the other side of the coin as the 5w6 flavored deterministic, systematic fatalism that dominates my more conscious, thinking side. I tend to think the paranoid, distrusting 6 effects work to really amplify my natural hesitation to engage with the world.

  3. #33
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    This is interesting. I never thought about it much, except when deciding on my wing.

    With type 9s, their general ambivalence, lack of assertion, lack of initiative, and most importantly, that feeling of being disengaged from everything seems incredibly disrespectful and annoying to me. At the same time, I have some of those traits myself. I am very disengaged, I tend to be ambivalent about things that are not of any immediate concern to me.

    With type 2s, their effusiveness and openness to emotion is baffling. I cannot -cannot- let my every action be guided by emotion like a type 2 can. The desire to go and help others with a hidden agenda of having them need me is beyond repulsive. But some of these things I do, too.! I used to go around poking my nose in others' business, telling them how to make it better, offering them unsolicited advice, etc.

    Much like what @flatlander said, I can see how having to reconcile two opposing forces - the desire to help vs. apathetic disengagement - can result in frustration and anger. E1.

    On a slightly different note, I can see how both the wings of E1 are similar in a superficial way. Both 2s and 9s are positive outlook types and share a strong need to appease people although for different reasons (abandonment vs. being unlovable). With the connection to 4, essentially an inherent feeling of being defective/different/unusual (or a need to be so), E1 is realistic and more capable (sometimes, more willing) to play the martyr. So, in a way, the E1 has established a different identity, as a 4 would, when surrounded by two somewhat similar types - 2 and 9.

    I'm not sure if it'll make any sense to other people, but I wrote what I think. xD
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    @Vergil, you also got a connection to the last positive outlook type - type 7. Which makes me wonder if 1s inherently are positive or not, as in you do strive towards some kind of positive outlook. Compared to myself and my type, I think an extreme positive outlook can be a bit baffling because at least to me, it's like people don't fully want to accept reality with all its complexities and that life is not always good.

    My grandmother is for example most likely at least double positive outlook and when she gets going with that stuff I just hang with my head and keep wondering why her view of the world is so unrealistic.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  5. #35
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    @Vergil, you also got a connection to the last positive outlook type - type 7. Which makes me wonder if 1s inherently are positive or not, as in you do strive towards some kind of positive outlook. Compared to myself and my type, I think an extreme positive outlook can be a bit baffling because at least to me, it's like people don't fully want to accept reality with all its complexities and that life is not always good.

    My grandmother is for example most likely at least double positive outlook and when she gets going with that stuff I just hang with my head and keep wondering why her view of the world is so unrealistic.
    1s strive for improvement.

    "Anything can be made better." - Positive outlook. xD
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

    ~George Bernard Shaw~


    *1w9-5w6-4w3 sx/sp* *ENTP* *ILE - selector*

  6. #36
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    1s strive for improvement.

    "Anything can be made better." - Positive outlook. xD
    8: surrounded by 9 and 7, integrates to 2. All positive outlook types.

    "I can do anything I put my mind to. Fuck off, I don't need you." --> Positive outlook?

    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  7. #37
    Member Vergil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    8: surrounded by 9 and 7, integrates to 2. All positive outlook types.

    "I can do anything I put my mind to. Fuck off, I don't need you." --> Positive outlook?

    In a way, yeah.
    8 believe they cannot be defeated. If that isn't positive outlook (extreme though it may be) I don't know what is..
    Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive.

    ~George Bernard Shaw~


    *1w9-5w6-4w3 sx/sp* *ENTP* *ILE - selector*

  8. #38
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    1s strive for improvement.

    "Anything can be made better." - Positive outlook. xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    8: surrounded by 9 and 7, integrates to 2. All positive outlook types.

    "I can do anything I put my mind to. Fuck off, I don't need you." --> Positive outlook?

    LOL. I can't even come up with something that could be seen as positive for a 5, fudge

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  9. #39
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergil View Post
    In a way, yeah.
    8 believe they cannot be defeated. If that isn't positive outlook (extreme though it may be) I don't know what is..
    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    LOL. I can't even come up with something that could be seen as positive for a 5, fudge
    Well, the first time I overestimated myself and then got defeated, I disintegrated to 5...
    then I strategized, figured stuff out and went and overestimated myself some more...

    ...everything makes sense now....

    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  10. #40
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    double-post

    Art is the blood of the Exile
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