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  1. #1
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    Default ENTJ CP6 vs ENTJ 8?

    So I read some naranjo. I've spoken to several ENTJ's on the subject as well.

    Something I've realized.

    There are a lot of ENTJ's who I would percieve to be 8's, at least on the surface. But once I get to know them, they almost always start to bring up emotions I completely don't identify with. They're workoholics because they're scared of what would happen if they stopped working. They surround themselves with a posse who they trust to do everything for them.

    Ever see "the last emperor"? Its almost the quintessential ENTJ story.

    I once had an ENTJ ask me to join his company for oodles of cash. He wanted me to join his collective. I told him its impossible for me to do that, psychologically. I told him I have to either be a partner, or at the helm, and it is physically impossible for me to abide by any sort of "moral code" that others adhere to. I told him that either they would follow my own code of ethics, or they wouldn't.

    He hasn't gotten back to me. Anyway we had some very deep conversations. I told him that I want to be a part of a community where each person is their own island, and not one where I'm sharing space on someone else's island.

    My experience is making me question what it means to be an 8. After reading some naranjo and other articles, it says that ENTJ's are the most common form of CP6, and that 8's are strictly based off of sensation.

    With this in mind, what does it mean to be an 8, and what does it mean to be a CP6?

    I feel like the difference between the two is this:
    CP6's most likely have a posse.
    8's have nothing but themselves.

    Both are big leaders but come in different forms.

    I'd like to hear your thoughts.

  2. #2
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Environmental control is an eight trait. You wouldn't join as inferior, so the eight wasn't interested in your participation.

    Sixes are driven by anxiety and insecurity about their own abilities. Whether CP or not, they desire pats on the back from external sources since they don't trust in their own abilities. A CP6 not only doesn't trust their own abilities, they also don't trust in anyone else's. In essence CP6s are projectors of their own inner state.

    Find me an ENTJ who's always anxious and doesn't trust in their own abilities and I will agree with you. But what you'll find it that ENTJ eights aren't like this.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Environmental control is an eight trait. You wouldn't join as inferior, so the eight wasn't interested in your participation.

    Sixes are driven by anxiety and insecurity about their own abilities. Whether CP or not, they desire pats on the back from external sources since they don't trust in their own abilities. A CP6 not only doesn't trust their own abilities, they also don't trust in anyone else's. In essence CP6s are projectors of their own inner state.

    Find me an ENTJ who's always anxious and doesn't trust in their own abilities and I will agree with you. But what you'll find it that ENTJ eights aren't like this.
    Hmm... Good point.

    I'm wondering what the disparity is though, between myself and an ENTJ 8. I feel like I can become the alpha male whenever I want to, but it takes way too much effort to maintain a group of people around me all the time. When I think about some ESTJ 8's, I don't see them having avid followers either. They just sorta bark orders and live in their own little world while the ENTJ's seem to almost always have this cloud of people around them all the time.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Environmental control is an eight trait. You wouldn't join as inferior, so the eight wasn't interested in your participation.

    Sixes are driven by anxiety and insecurity about their own abilities. Whether CP or not, they desire pats on the back from external sources since they don't trust in their own abilities. A CP6 not only doesn't trust their own abilities, they also don't trust in anyone else's. In essence CP6s are projectors of their own inner state.

    Find me an ENTJ who's always anxious and doesn't trust in their own abilities and I will agree with you. But what you'll find it that ENTJ eights aren't like this.
    Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about. They don't do anything for themselves, they always have other people doing things for them. The guy I was talking to expressed that "he isn't capable of very much on his own. everything he's accomplished has always been the doing of someone else working for him."

    Me personally... everything I"ve done has always been something I've done on my own. I learn a backflip, I travel to colorado, buy a house and build a social life from scratch while refusing financial help from my parents simply because I want to be challenged. This is what I can't understand about some of the ENTJ's who think they're 8's.

    I suppose you could be right about CP6's not trusting the abilities of others as I've seen it first hand.

  5. #5
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Hmm... Good point.

    I'm wondering what the disparity is though, between myself and an ENTJ 8. I feel like I can become the alpha male whenever I want to, but it takes way too much effort to maintain a group of people around me all the time. When I think about some ESTJ 8's, I don't see them having avid followers either. They just sorta bark orders and live in their own little world while the ENTJ's seem to almost always have this cloud of people around them all the time.
    Look to wings and instinctual variants. An 8w7 sx/sp will come across very different from an 8w9 so/sp.

  6. #6
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about. They don't do anything for themselves, they always have other people doing shit for them.
    Delegation doesn't mean insecurity in personal capabilities, although it can point to a more pragmatic and realistic nature of knowing that certain individuals are more capable in certain tasks. But ultimately, the ENTJ is still responsible for the task getting completed.

  7. #7
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    "Divide and conquer"

    It's much more efficient to get work done that way.
    C#2-C#5-F#5
    3 octaves, 2 notes and 1 semitone
    Supported range: F#2-F#4-C#5

  8. #8
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I feel like the difference between the two is this:
    CP6's most likely have a posse.
    8's have nothing but themselves.

    Both are big leaders but come in different forms.

    I'd like to hear your thoughts.
    That can be Fi in ENTJ guy. Fe extends over large groups of people - Fi onto small insider group, a "clique" of people with whom you have long history. If you are an xSTP then you wouldn't be able to relate to this ENTJ guy's emotions simply because you orient by Fe - he orients by Fi.

    The people who attract followers are usually 8s. Those who end up following an 8 around are mostly attracted to the powerful and competent image that 8s project. 6s usually don't have such groups. They appreciate more equal and level relations and win people over by charm, wit, and intelligence (head triad vs gut triad). They form relationships founded on trust rather than protection.

    Some under-developed 6s, who still haven't overcome their fears and phobias, sometimes fall into the posse of 8s and end up following them around like dogs follow their master. But a self-confident, experienced 6 is likely to get into conflicts with an 8, especially if they are both male and vying for an alpha position.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    That can be Fi in ENTJ guy. Fe extends over large groups of people - Fi onto small insider group, a "clique" of people with whom you have long history. If you are an xSTP then you wouldn't be able to relate to this ENTJ guy's emotions simply because you orient by Fe - he orients by Fi.

    The people who attract followers are usually 8s. Those who end up following an 8 around are mostly attracted to the powerful and competent image that 8s project. 6s usually don't have such groups. They appreciate more equal and level relations and win people over by charm, wit, and intelligence (head triad vs gut triad). They form relationships founded on trust rather than protection.

    Some under-developed 6s, who still haven't overcome their fears and phobias, sometimes fall into the posse of 8s and end up following them around like dogs follow their master. But a self-confident, experienced 6 is likely to get into conflicts with an 8, especially if they are both male and vying for an alpha position.
    I don't think a healthy personality of any type would try to challenge someone over a position of power to the point that it causes such conflict, unless perhaps they're deadset on believing the other person is morally wrong or something.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    That can be Fi in ENTJ guy. Fe extends over large groups of people - Fi onto small insider group, a "clique" of people with whom you have long history. If you are an xSTP then you wouldn't be able to relate to this ENTJ guy's emotions simply because you orient by Fe - he orients by Fi.

    The people who attract followers are usually 8s. Those who end up following an 8 around are mostly attracted to the powerful and competent image that 8s project. 6s usually don't have such groups. They appreciate more equal and level relations and win people over by charm, wit, and intelligence (head triad vs gut triad). They form relationships founded on trust rather than protection.

    Some under-developed 6s, who still haven't overcome their fears and phobias, sometimes fall into the posse of 8s and end up following them around like dogs follow their master. But a self-confident, experienced 6 is likely to get into conflicts with an 8, especially if they are both male and vying for an alpha position.
    I don't think a healthy personality of any type would try to challenge someone over a position of power to the point that it causes such conflict, unless perhaps they're deadset on believing the other person is morally wrong or something.

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