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  1. #21
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    as a child, i saw the direct link between amount of sophistication and stupidity, nowadays i dont see it so blackwhite while i think it still is there.

    "for instance- does the enneagram control my biological makeup?"
    actually yes, i think some enneagrams are emotionally more disciplined and thus better at avoiding biological addictions.

    "And life events play a role as well- somebody is a lot more likely to go overboard in an attempt to numb themselves, for instance, if something traumatic has happened to them... that's just an example and there are many more."

    the way i see it, we all have problems and the way we react are entirely predictable when you know the person well enough.

    I think 4s dwelling in the sadness is perhaps the strongest way to cope without downsides enneagram-wise.

    9s numbing themselves isnt that liable to addictions either, but this state of numbness may cloud our judgment.
    two questions for you to help me decide exactly how naive you are:

    do you really think that there's only 9 or 16 types of people in the entire world?

    and

    on what are you basing your opinions on addiction, theory or actual results? I've been to rehab and to some AA meetings and can say that I've seen ALL types of people there who were equally addicted, including varieties of people who either personality system seems to have swept under the rug...
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #22
    Glycerine
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    The main reason why I avoid drugs (and gambling) is because I know that I have an addictive type of personality. If I were ever to develop an addiction, my drug of choice would probably be morphine (and other pain-killers). Alcohol and caffeine just makes me sleepy and not much else. It's hardly because of "my type".

  3. #23
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    two questions for you to help me decide exactly how naive you are:

    and

    I've been to rehab and to some AA meetings and can say that I've seen ALL types of people there who were equally addicted, including varieties of people who either personality system seems to have swept under the rug...
    "
    do you really think that there's only 9 or 16 types of people in the entire world?
    "
    no. There are 18 ennea types wings counted, 16 personality types and 6 instinctual variations. 18 x 16 x 6 = 1728 types of people, plus ive figured theres also one more grid which i havent decided what to call, maybe emotional role preference which only messies things further. And some people seem to have fixed emotional role while ive wwitnessed some as being versatile.

    And those 1728 types of people can appear very different in different emotional healths so even if you meet someone exactly like one youve met, you either likely wouldnt have observed the both of them deeply enough to see this or they are in different healths so you cant make the connection.

    I have to say ive came across three people who are eerily similar in everything, even though the two were a child when i met them. but thats likely cause 7w8s just are so similar to each other, in my perspective at least. Cause they also had very similar appearance, so much i couldnt distinguish them from the memories of the other people.

    "
    on what are you basing your opinions on addiction, theory or actual results?
    "
    observations, i observe what people use and then try to deduce what their perspective on the said drug is and if they actually understand it has negatives too, and if yes, then the reason for drug use is something else than recklessness, in which case i analyze what is so horrible as to drive into drug usage. When their judgment of drug usage as being beneficial changes to a more realistic one, then they already have developed a habit and an emotional relationship with the substance, as if it was a real person, which is usually the real reason to addiction rather than the biological one.

    Also people have different parameters which affect their judgment, as something like brain damage is enough to make me an absolutist, while people who think brains are only for solving tasks might completely dismiss that information as useless.

    I dont have opinions. Ive tried to have, but i only get myself frustrated when i try to form an opinion of anything, so its easier to judge objectively.

    The only opinions im able to form of are when something can only be judged by the changes they cause to my emotional state. Aka how i would define word opinion.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  4. #24
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    "
    do you really think that there's only 9 or 16 types of people in the entire world?
    "
    no. There are 18 ennea types wings counted, 16 personality types and 6 instinctual variations. 18 x 16 x 6 = 1728 types of people, plus ive figured theres also one more grid which i havent decided what to call, maybe emotional role preference which only messies things further. And some people seem to have fixed emotional role while ive wwitnessed some as being versatile.

    And those 1728 types of people can appear very different in different emotional healths so even if you meet someone exactly like one youve met, you either likely wouldnt have observed the both of them deeply enough to see this or they are in different healths so you cant make the connection.

    I have to say ive came across three people who are eerily similar in everything, even though the two were a child when i met them. but thats likely cause 7w8s just are so similar to each other, in my perspective at least. Cause they also had very similar appearance, so much i couldnt distinguish them from the memories of the other people.

    "
    on what are you basing your opinions on addiction, theory or actual results?
    "
    observations, i observe what people use and then try to deduce what their perspective on the said drug is and if they actually understand it has negatives too, and if yes, then the reason for drug use is something else than recklessness, in which case i analyze what is so horrible as to drive into drug usage. When their judgment of drug usage as being beneficial changes to a more realistic one, then they already have developed a habit and an emotional relationship with the substance, as if it was a real person, which is usually the real reason to addiction rather than the biological one.

    Also people have different parameters which affect their judgment, as something like brain damage is enough to make me an absolutist, while people who think brains are only for solving tasks might completely dismiss that information as useless.

    I dont have opinions. Ive tried to have, but i only get myself frustrated when i try to form an opinion of anything, so its easier to judge objectively.

    The only opinions im able to form of are when something can only be judged by the changes they cause to my emotional state. Aka how i would define word opinion.
    then don't oversimplify it down to 9 types or 16 then... oversimplification is one of the easiest way to be flat out wrong

    and if it's really that complex type-wise wouldn't there be plenty of the "non-addictive" types you listed who would be just as prone to addiction?

    without looking anywhere else on the forum, I challenge you to correctly assess why I spent a good 6 years of my life as a barely functional alcoholic- I'm an 8 I want to see if you're as good as you claim that you are
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure the reason I've never used recreational drugs is because I was raised in a strict religion, have had a relatively non-traumatic life, and I'm chicken.

    Oh, and maybe because I'm very easily entertained. If I get really bored and don't have anything to do or read, I go to sleep. I love to sleep. Usually I'm only really unhappy when I'm stuck in a class or meeting or religious service in which if I read something entertaining or fall asleep, I will upset someone and/or embarrass myself. Probably being stoned would make that better, but it's not worth the risk for me.

    Whatever that means.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #26
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    then don't oversimplify it down to 9 types or 16 then... oversimplification is one of the easiest way to be flat out wrong


    without looking anywhere else on the forum, I challenge you to correctly assess why I spent a good 6 years of my life as a barely functional alcoholic- I'm an 8 I want to see if you're as good as you claim that you are
    probably some emotional issues combined with lack of motivation to choose better even though you wished you could, perhaps you got a mate or found a really good friend which gave you the inner strentgh, or perhaps a hobby or job.

    "
    and if it's really that complex type-wise wouldn't there be plenty of the "non-addictive" types you listed who would be just as prone to addiction?
    "
    i have all the enneagrams which i believe are most drug averse in my triad, yet even i have tried drugs. I would say its our human stupidity of not believing unless experienced, and it took a significant decrease in brain capabilities for me to realize it.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I don't think it's stupid to try things. I think it's stupid to try things you are pretty sure you'll get addicted to -- maybe some people can't sense what's bad for them, though. I would never try heroin. I think it would probably take just once and I'd be a junkie. I don't care about cocaine, have done it a few times and it has little appeal except to perk me up and give me stamina for an evening I'd probably just as soon not be having anyway but must, for a social occasion. I don't think recreational drugs are bad (aside from the obvious complications of their being illegal). I think there are people who can do a little of this and that and be just fine. Not everyone gets addicted or necessarily has a problem with drugs if they use them. They can be fun.

  8. #28
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    probably some emotional issues combined with lack of motivation to choose better even though you wished you could, perhaps you got a mate or found a really good friend which gave you the inner strentgh, or perhaps a hobby or job.

    "
    and if it's really that complex type-wise wouldn't there be plenty of the "non-addictive" types you listed who would be just as prone to addiction?
    "
    i have all the enneagrams which i believe are most drug averse in my triad, yet even i have tried drugs. I would say its our human stupidity of not believing unless experienced, and it took a significant decrease in brain capabilities for me to realize it.
    I just don't understand why you think 4s would be less likely to try drugs, because if we're going to get stereotypical with it, I'd think we'd be among the most likely. 9s too...

  9. #29
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    when i were a kid, i just thought people who do drugs are stupid. Later, i started to lean into thinking 'they are jus weak'. And when i got into mbti, i thought it has to do with less sophisticated types just leaning into it. But i realized not, and now i think its all about enneagram and possibly instincts. Not saying sp types would be less likely to fall, rather so sx and sx so being less likely to fall while primarily up to tritype.
    (so and sx instict combo seems to have self valuation other instinct combos lack)

    So, my theory is that 5w6 in triad are likely to value their brains over pleasure. 9w1's not wanting to be enslaved by _any_ addiction, like me stopping tea drinking just cause i realized there to be a _biological_ urge for me to drink it. And then 4w3's in triad are likely to think its weak and pathetic to fall for drugs.

    Other enneas seem either neutral on the matter or drawn to recklessness.

    What do other people think of my theory?
    Eh, I see where you're going with this, but I don't think you've got the whole picture in mind. We're all only human. Heredity plays a role in these things. Impulse control, adapting to environmental stressors, learned behaviors. Any type may have the propensity to self medicate. Perhaps they give themselves different reasons, try different drugs, start and stop at different points.

    I'm 5w6, & I absolutely value my brain over temporary pleasure.. but even those who value their brain can be pushed enough to want to escape, and cope by, well, in my situation- "intentional experimentation"- intended to be a temporary fix- and it was. And when I sensed addiction setting in, I stopped. You can only run for so long. But yes, even those who are stereotypically rather analytic can fall into traps created by their own minds, in response to the world around them. Even self-preservation primary types can develop a clouded perception of how to precisely preserve/protect the self- via a need to control- and turn to drugs in an attempt to maintain that sense of control.

    Nothing's ever as simple as we'd like to categorize.

    @Tiltyred makes a great point, too. There's a high contrast between use and abuse. A tightrope walk over a canyon, perhaps. But that contrast exists, all the same.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
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    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    People "do drugs" by having experiences, too. They play with their chemistry and their brain patterns. If you bungee jump off a bridge, or you get on a roller coaster, you're in a sense doing drugs. You're forcing your body to produce certain chemicals, fast, into your bloodstream, for your pleasure. If you meditate, you're training your body to stay in a certain groove of brain wave for longer than it normally would. So using drugs is just an easy way to achieve effects in our bodies. It's not evil. If you could be sure of what you were buying on the street and exactly how much to take safely and were in no danger of arrest, whyever not do a little every once in awhile, for the pleasure of it, just like you would go on a roller coaster or go bungee jumping, for the pleasure of it. (I can't think of an analogy for less speed-like drugs, but I'm sure they exist.) Even animals like to get in a little bit of an altered state when they can.

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