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  1. #21
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    4s = letting their emotions all out!
    9s = keeping their emotions in for the sake of harmony

    4s = drama
    9s = no-drama-Obama
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    A full blown Four will respond to an offense by being combative, childish, and making a fool out of ourself at times. A full blown Nine, wont respond. You all are simply too good to. It's sort of a stubborn snootiness.
    These are overstated, inaccurate stereotypes.

    People try to make 4s out to be hysterical drama queens. 4s are emotional people but they don't necessarily wear their heart on their sleeves. I'm far more emotionally contained than almost everyone I've met. And it's not just the 4w5s; look at Lady Gaga (a 4w3). She's so chill, composed and not very emotionally demonstrative at all.

    I also dislike conflict but I can cope with it better than a 9 - and it's only under extreme circumstances that I become combative and childish.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    4's emotions are volatile; 9's emotions are stable. 4 tries to dig as deep into hurt as possible; 9 tries to avoid hurt if possible.
    This is a much more accurate summary.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    4s like to revel in their sense of personal misery and really dig deep into their emotions whereas 9 try to avoid feeling anything, especially pertaining negative emotions, at all. 4s are also reactive in conflict, meaning that when they feel emotionally slighted they will run away and expect others to chase them. If people chase it means they mean something. 9s are as a whole not reactive and tend to do the opposite because 9s dislike conflict.

    4 is situated in the heart center so the primary issue they deal with is shame which they cover up with their type's passion being called envy whereas 9 is a gut type and the primary emotion they deal with is anger which they cover up with their type's passion being called sloth. As the words imply, sloth and envy are very different although there are similarities here between the 4 and 9 in that in order for the 4 to be envious, there must always be a constant compare and contrast due to a sense of deficit within themselves. What they have or what they are is never good enough. 9s also contrast and compare themselves to other people but whereas the 4's envy will make them take upon an identity they are not because they are envious, 9s take upon identities they are not because they have difficulties separating themselves from the world around them. Both are ego types but whereas the 4 has a strong sense of ego the 9 does not. The 4's life desire is to create an ego that is unique whereas a 9's life desire is to have their ego entirely merged into the world around them.

    Other differences include that 4s suffer from a masochist personailty and often attempt to attract a rescuer. 9 suffer from indolence and psychospiritual laziness which pretty much leads to the opposite attitude of there never being a problem. This is part because 4 is a part of the reactive triad and 9 the positive outlook as it is the positive outlook that makes the 9 inclined to forget and ignore hurts. Both 4s and 9s are prone to create fantasies in their heads about how reality should really be like, but 4s do it because they desire to be something which they are not due to envy. This cannot be better expressed than in the story of Cinderella where Cinderella is looking outside her window, sighing that what if she was a noble princess and she could go to the ball like the others. This is very opposite to how 9s create fantansies because in this scenario the 9 would think more in the lines of, I'm having it so good with the prince being so nice to people in this country, hosting balls for all the nobles to participate in. Our prince is so nice, and they would think this irregardless of whether as a whole, the prince is in fact "nice" or not.

    There are probably other similarities and differences but these are the one I can think of from the top of my head.
    This is also pretty great.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    These are overstated, inaccurate stereotypes.

    People try to make 4s out to be hysterical drama queens. 4s are emotional people but they don't necessarily wear their heart on their sleeves. I'm far more emotionally contained than almost everyone I've met. And it's not just the 4w5s; look at Lady Gaga (a 4w3). She's so chill, composed and not very emotionally demonstrative at all.

    I also dislike conflict but I can cope with it better than a 9 - and it's only under extreme circumstances that I become combative and childish.
    I don't mean that we are that way on the regular. I should have put, I mean when we get pushed, and we are not on our best behavior, this is the difference in how we react. I only say that, because even when you mature, you still sense that tendency in yourself. I like to look at the extremes, because I think that's when you see your personality the most, when you are the most flamboyant.

  3. #23
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    I'm not sure why this thread got started up again

    some of these descriptions are kind of insulting and vague, to be honest. especially based on what LeaT said, it seems like 9s are perceived as naive, avoidant, and somewhat vacant. I don't doubt that I'm a 9, but none of these traits apply well to me or most other 9s I've encountered.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    4s and 9s are similar in the sense that both types are withdrawn types but I think that's also pretty much where the similarity ends. As others mentioned, 4s are emotionally volatile, 9s emotionally stable. 4s like to revel in their sense of personal misery and really dig deep into their emotions whereas 9 try to avoid feeling anything, especially pertaining negative emotions, at all. 4s are also reactive in conflict, meaning that when they feel emotionally slighted they will run away and expect others to chase them. If people chase it means they mean something. 9s are as a whole not reactive and tend to do the opposite because 9s dislike conflict.
    and as Loki mentioned, 9s are not necessarily emotionally stable.
    I agree with everything else but the implication that 9s can't handle conflict. I think of it as a hatred of disharmony; conflict can be a way of acknowledging underlying tension so that it can be resolved. Avoidance of in-your-face conflict as well as under-the-surface issues stalls resolution and fails to create a real sense of peace. Which is what mature 9s realize they want and don't feel shy about going after; less mature 9s are apparently content with avoidance. But if a person values reconciliation, why would he avoid the process?

    Edit: I didn't mean to come across as if I'm referring to myself as mature. I'm not, just aware of where I need to be.

    9s take upon identities they are not because they have difficulties separating themselves from the world around them. Both are ego types but whereas the 4 has a strong sense of ego the 9 does not. The 4's life desire is to create an ego that is unique whereas a 9's life desire is to have their ego entirely merged into the world around them.
    What do you mean by the bolded?

  4. #24
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    some of these descriptions are kind of insulting and vague, to be honest. especially based on what LeaT said, it seems like 9s are perceived as naive, avoidant, and somewhat vacant. I don't doubt that I'm a 9, but none of these traits apply well to me or most other 9s I've encountered.
    I suspect you feeling this way could be due to you being so dom, like myself. Many 9's IRL can be very much in the woodwork and not fully 'checked in'.

    Do you know your tritype?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I suspect you feeling this way could be due to you being so dom, like myself. Many 9's IRL can be very much in the woodwork and not fully 'checked in'.

    Do you know your tritype?
    I think it's 952 - 9w1 5w6 2w3.

    why do you think it has to do with being so dom?

  6. #26
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Interesting. If you have an extra 10 bucks, do this one and then let's talk tritype in more depth.
    The Professional Enneagram Test and Tritype® Test: http://www.enneagram.net/tests/index...fullenneacards

    For me, the social instinct pushes me to engage with the world more, I think, so I suspect I seem more present. And more ENFP in appearance as a result, since people do not believe I am an introvert. (Especially with 7 in my tritype.)

    So, since I identify with 9w1 so/sx as you do, I am interested to see how far down the rabbit hole we can go here. Share your results and thoughts.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #27
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    When I think of 9s, the primary thing that comes to mind is suppressed anger.

    I came across the following video recently, which describes the different Enneagram types and how they respond to anger. In addition to helping to understand each of the types, I also think there is value in being able to discern one type from another (i.e., 9 vs. 4).


    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  8. #28
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    9s like repression and 4s like expression. I do think 4s are more dramatic, but 4w3 more than 4w5; still, even 4w5 are probably more likely to assert their identity.

    9s IME swing or vary between being overly passive and utterly non-obtrusive to being irritating passive-aggressive, quietly holier than thou "peace makers." Healthy 9s have great energy and can be very spiritual and "live and let live" kinds of people; unhealthy nines have a tendency to bury their head in the sand, live in denial, or even emit a kind of passive-to-passive-aggressive anger that is absolutely impossible for me to tolerate.

    I was close to a 9w1 for a while who used to take pride in saying things like "you wouldn't even know if I was dying, I save face that well" and he didn't understand why I would get so upset by random people or even get involved with random conversations. However, the 1 wing gave him a pretentious, perfectionistic snobby streak that he simply hid under the more agreeable and/or taciturn non-confrontational facade.

    However, his tactics can lead toward outright lying to make other people look bad while he's just like the innocent good guy who didn't do anything wrong, and passive-aggressively trying to provoke people in a pathetic (though sometimes effective) attempt to unleash his repressed anger; lots of anger at his mother.

    On the other hand, I have a 9w1 friend who is female, and she is one of the BEST people at resolving conflicts, she really tries to see both sides of everything, she has the most amazing ability to play referee in a very subtle way, and she's overall just a very peaceful individual. Not saying she doesn't have her issues, I'm just saying that she was a healthier 9w1.

    4s by contrast want you to know how unique or outstanding they are, even if it's in a quiet or non-verbal manner, and tend to be more comfortable in the realm of emotions.

    An unhealthy 4 would be more likely to be overly self-absorbed and self-congratulatory or clingy in a very dependent way, like a 2.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    These are overstated, inaccurate stereotypes.

    People try to make 4s out to be hysterical drama queens. 4s are emotional people but they don't necessarily wear their heart on their sleeves. I'm far more emotionally contained than almost everyone I've met. And it's not just the 4w5s; look at Lady Gaga (a 4w3). She's so chill, composed and not very emotionally demonstrative at all.


    That's not how I would describe Lady Gaga.

    9s can actually be utterly detached from their feelings, causing them to have this peaceful, push-over "everyone smile and hold hands" facade to protect themselves from their own anger or assertion of their own will (because they don't want to be abandoned from their ideal of holy love), or if they're really unhealthy ...they're just fucking cold. Like literally "I feel nothing for you." A REALLY EXTREMELY unhealthy 9w1 is a nightmare. Like "who are you? do I know you? did you ever exist? I feel nothing for anyone" kind of shit. I think a really extremely unhealthy 9w8 expresses anger more openly, but inappropriately, like the sleeping bear who snaps and suddenly punches a hole in the wall, or who has or practices "secret" acts of domination while trying to appear socially more easy going.

    4s don't do this. If a 4 is a trainwreck, you'll see it openly in one form or another.

    I almost think a 4 would be inclined to "expose" an unhealthy repressed 9; I wondered for a long time if I was a 4w3 for this reason, because I constantly wanted to force the 9w1 to emote, and would publicly expose his bullshit to others he had duped with his facade.

    I also dislike conflict but I can cope with it better than a 9 - and it's only under extreme circumstances that I become combative and childish.
    A 9 under extreme circumstances can disintegrate and become reactive and paranoid like a 6...as in "you're out to get me" or "people are stalking me" or "I can't trust you, you're a whore."

    People almost want to idealize 9s, like they're every pushy dictator or male chauvinistic asshole's wet dream, but they have their own detached, deep freeze form of evil at the bottom out levels.


    This is a much more accurate summary.


    This is also pretty great.
    I agree.

  10. #30
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post


    That's not how I would describe Lady Gaga.
    I get why you would say that. I admit I'm not hugely knowledgeable about her, so if you are, I would submit to that. But every interview I've seen she doesn't show much 'real' emotion and she has this 'evenness' in her manner. She uses very emotive language and speaks about very emo things but that doesn't translate to her means of communicating that (ie. the form doesn't match the content). Her music and clothing is very expressive but then 4s are generally more so in their creative outlets.

    I also think she's very open either, even though she give the appearance of being so. If she 'open', it's usually a very controlled (perhaps slightly calculated) 3-style version of openness - you don't seem to see behind the curtain much.

    I don't know. Maybe being a fellow 4 makes me see the same qualities differently. I look at her and see the mechanisms working underneath, because I know how they work from the inside - if that makes sense.

    4s don't do this. If a 4 is a trainwreck, you'll see it openly in one form or another.
    Yeah, I think that's the point. 4s can't conceal their meltdowns. If they're a mess, their unhealthiness is obvious. Unhealthiness in many of the other types can be disguised (including 9s).

    I almost think a 4 would be inclined to "expose" an unhealthy repressed 9; I wondered for a long time if I was a 4w3 for this reason, because I constantly wanted to force the 9w1 to emote, and would publicly expose his bullshit to others he had duped with his facade.
    Maybe. Personally, my dad is a repressed 9w8, so I'm used to not getting much out of 9s. Occasionally, I will prod to make him commit to some sort of statement about how he feels about something (like a movie or a song) or at least to offer a real opinion that isn't just a repetition of what others have said. Mostly it's just a waste of time, though.

    EDIT: Actually I was just thinking how my e6 mum often attempts to force my e9 dad to emote. It really seems to irritate her; much more than me or most other people. Maybe it's a 6 thing after all. I mean 6s do tend to have a need for truth and may go to great lengths to expose what they perceive to be untruths. And perhaps the 9s passivity and lack of emotional expression can seem like an untruth to 6s
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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