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  1. #1
    Member EndlessNameless's Avatar
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    Default 4,6, or 7? Or something else?

    I am pretty corious, about my enneagram type....Most of the time I've thought I am for sure 4, but I am not sure now and I think I some help from you, would be great :-) .
    So reasons I think I might be 4 are: I am very artistic, aesthetic and creative. It is extremly important for me, to be original, to stand out from the crowd, I am also very individualistic. I have deep emotions, and sometimes it is almost an emotional unstability. I like to attract attention with my style, or original clothes. I am attracted to "dark" things, dark art, music, I mostly wear black and also death is pretty interessting topic for me. My whole life I search for my real identity, my true self and I also feel like part of me is missing and I want to find it. I am really jealous person, I imidietly see when someone is more beautiful, creative, original... And I can't freakin stand it!
    Reasons why I think I might not be 4: I don't express my emotions, I don't like to be tragical infront of others, don't seek attention by expressing my emotions. I am emotionaly closed and overanalyze what I feel. Sometimes seek logic and system inside such things like feelings. I sometimes want to fit...I don't know who I really am and maybe sometimes I just follow others and wait for someone else to tell me who I am, or what should I do.
    Reasons why I think I might be 6: Even though nothing from 6 description really fits someone once tell me, that I am misstyped 6. The thing is, that I feel fear sometimes, and it holds me back from doing some things I would like to do, but this is the only thing I can relate from 6 description.
    7 I am such a bohemian...I seek for pleasure and sometimes I eat too much, drink too much, party too much... When I want something I want it now, I can't wait, I have poor self control, mostly do what is enjoyable, and comfortable. I seek for new stimules, adventures, knoweladge... I need change all the time and I can get bored extremly easily. But I am very shy, and maybe too emotional to be 7.
    What do you think? Something from theese numbers, or something totaly else?

  2. #2
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    I'm tempted to say you are a 4, perhaps 4w5. I'm a four and I'm not really that outwardly emotional myself, if anything I'm outwardly unemotional with my expression being orientated toward being more outwardly dramatic. I would myself not want to expose myself as someone who believes his life to be a Greek tragedy (outside of the occasional whimsical moment when the mood takes me) because I do not want the weakness within to be exposed (I don't consider myself completely weak, there is an enormous variety but self-pity tends to become the easiest to express!) Basically in a nutshell there is very little histrionics, a tendency to be fake if I play to the crowd at any point and individualism is born out of being completely aloof to what is cultural/mainstream and traditional.

    One thing though: When reading the descriptions and the material I feel that they do not explain or quantify that "special something" of an esoteric nature which I find exists as part of myself (though it may purely be me and not type related) however they stir the soul sufficiently to make me say "that's me!" The former may be why mistyping occurs in regards to four: It only shows the cube as a square so to speak. Do you experience the same phenomena at all?

    Also, when you say "I don't know who I am" in what context do you refer? Type fours know who they are however I find the sense of identity to be detached and removed from the world, it does not have a defined place in the world at large and has no place in the world. Like a book without a place in a shelf. My inner self and identity is like a sphere - heck it's practically a star burning away at the centre. I know all about it - it's most static and dynamic. However my conclusion of it comes down to what angle I look at it, e.g. if I'm looking at it in regards to the creativity of my peers I would deem it a superior model however in comparison to my ideal self I would fear that there isn't enough there (e.g. I don't have enough groceries to make dinner!) to achieve my goals and am doomed to fall short which leads to re-emergence of things like inadequacy and envy of those who possess what I lack. It is "me" but has no definable label, I may call it what I will. Unfortunately it does not really fit with the external world and has no objective identity, yet all along my inner self is known.

    tl:dr version: if you do not have an inner sense of self then I would reconsider your typing but if you know yourself but you have no place in the world then you may be a 4.

    As for type 6: The descriptions are crappy as six has a huge amount of diversity. Basically a 6 needs stability of an outer world as they see it as too full of variables and potential outcomes. The chaos gets to them and from what I understand they fear being cast adrift in a world where anything can happen and there is no certainty. They seek to fit in as they feel it provides a degree of the craved certainty. They seek to know who they are because it would provide a reliable sense of security and certainty; a port in a storm perhaps but do not know themselves because of the above issue about seeing too many possibilities about who they could be. Their minds over-analyze but it is more destructive than what it is for 4's and 5's.

    As for 7's: They don't really find sentimental or personal value in objects, they merely serve as a means to an end in regarding pleasure. Basically, the more items the merrier. They find pleasure with external materialism whilst 4's find pleasure with inner emotional richness. For 4's the more emotion the merrier (well most of the time!)

    That's my take on it but it of course hangs entirely on me being correctly typed. Please take my response as you see fit.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I also hear 4w5, fwiw.

  4. #4
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    4w5 sounds right

    I feel like people here over-type others as enneagram 6 lately.

  5. #5
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    I think you are a 4w5 too.

    The fact that 4's have deep, intense emotion does not mean we always express it. I only express myself openly with people I'm comfortable with already. It's important to remember that 4's are reserved, so even though we feel deeply we often fear that no one will understand us (so we keep to ourselves). You also seem to be pretty open and aware of yourself (virtues and flaws) which is also a big component of being a 4. Plus all the things you already identified (creativity, uniqueness, and envy/disgruntlement towards those who are similar).

  6. #6
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Look into the ego fixations & passions more. I couldn't & wouldn't comment on your type just from this info, but I will comment on some ideas about the 6 & 4 types that can get misconstrued....

    Threatened jealousy is more of a 6 thing. 6s look for threats, and this can certainly be someone they see as more X than them. Sometimes, 6s seek or even invent threats & obstacles, not stability...why? Because conquering threats is a way to conquer your fear, because it makes you feel more secure to know you can do it. This can look like rebelliousness in a 6 & include an attraction to non-mainstream stuff. 6s also may over-think things, because making sense of it can allow them to form a strategy to deal with it.

    Here, I think MBTI type comes into play, because this can range from making sense of the physical world, to social life, to psychology and philosophy, etc. Some 6s are "shallow" and may be concerned with social rank, attaining a cushy position; others may very deep philosophical types. Perhaps they use art to explore ideas they have, to soothe anxiety, or simply because they are creative as any type may be. All 6 individuals may have in common is deep down, they are scared of something in life overtaking them, scared they don't have the means to deal with threats to their existence. This means there can also be a mistrust of self, a low confidence in themselves to make decisions, and sometimes there's an identity crisis that goes along with this. 6s struggle to type themselves sometimes because they don't trust their own interpretation, nor anyone else's. Or, they overtrust a shallow understanding or someone else's labeling because they just want to come to a conclusion quickly, to soothe any anxiety over it.

    Enneatypes are kind of like psychological survival strategies, based on a deeply rooted belief about yourself, the world, reality, so that it becomes the lens through which you view yourself, the world & reality. This can make it hard to identify, because it's as much about how you see as how you look.

    Envy in a 4 is not necessarily recognizable as jealousy in the way most think of it. It means a focus on what you're lacking that you think everyone else has, and because you don't seem able to attain it as easily as they appear to, then you obsess over what is wrong with you that you cannot do this. The flaws you see in yourself become linked to what you do possess, especially that which others do not have. In this way, defectiveness is romanticized and seen as a trade-off for some quality you need to identify with in order to have some self-worth. 4s often consciously deal with envy by devaluing what others have, which looks like snobbery. You're not consciously jealous of the beautiful, creative, original, because you write it off as plastic, insincere, mundane, etc (those are illustrations, not necessarily how every 4 will interpret things). Admiring that which you possess in others or which represents a more ideal self is quite common for a 4, because they want to increase value of what they already have or have potential for (which they tend to regard as their "real self"). So 4s don't necessarily resent someone better in a shared area, more so those given credit for something they deem lesser.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessNameless View Post
    Reasons why I think I might not be 4: I don't express my emotions, I don't like to be tragical infront of others, don't seek attention by expressing my emotions. I am emotionaly closed and overanalyze what I feel. Sometimes seek logic and system inside such things like feelings. I sometimes want to fit...I don't know who I really am and maybe sometimes I just follow others and wait for someone else to tell me who I am, or what should I do.
    Do you mind elaborating a bit more on what you wrote in the end (the stuff in bold)? Wanting someone to tell you who you are and what you should do... I don't understand. I've seen someone mention something very similar to this elsewhere.

    Your type isn't clear to me. With this type of thing, it's easier to see what you're not as opposed to what you are. What caught my attention was that you relate to surface descriptions, a cartoon of the type. You fall into the trap that a lot of people fall into, and that is you just list a bunch of traits that mean absolutely nothing without context. I think it's good to start with the basic fears. The basic fear of type 4 is of not having an identity and personal significance. One thing I find that I do often is that there is a tendency to rev up my emotional state and milk experiences (ie: trivial everyday interactions). People always say stuff like 4s have great emotional intensity or try to imply that there is this innate fountain of depth of emotion. I find that to be a fairy tale outside perspective of what it really is. If there is great emotional depth within me already then why does the literature say that there is a tendency for the type to artificially intensify their feelings? What I find is that underneath it all, my core is something cold and dead. The ramping up of feelings is a way to instill significance and meaning into a life that is otherwise dull and meaningless.

    Can you relate? Also, the point is to see if you can tie in aspects of yourself to the basic fear of the type.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled
    Envy in a 4 is not necessarily recognizable as jealousy in the way most think of it. It means a focus on what you're lacking that you think everyone else has, and because you don't seem able to attain it as easily as they appear to, then you obsess over what is wrong with you that you cannot do this. The flaws you see in yourself become linked to what you do possess, especially that which others do not have. In this way, defectiveness is romanticized and seen as a trade-off for some quality you need to identify with in order to have some self-worth. 4s often consciously deal with envy by devaluing what others have, which looks like snobbery. You're not consciously jealous of the beautiful, creative, original, because you write it off as plastic, insincere, mundane, etc (those are illustrations, not necessarily how every 4 will interpret things). Admiring that which you possess in others or which represents a more ideal self is quite common for a 4, because they want to increase value of what they already have or have potential for (which they tend to regard as their "real self"). So 4s don't necessarily resent someone better in a shared area, more so those given credit for something they deem lesser.
    Yes! The bold is how I see it. Of course it can manifest itself as blatant jealousy and hostility (more 3 wing imo), but what I've seen described from others sounds rather mechanical and too general. Anyone can experience greed, lust, and envy, but what does it mean in the context of the enneagram? That's the type of question one would have to ask themselves.

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