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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Ok, so I saw this data on PersonalityCafe a few weeks ago, regarding the MBTI/enneagram types of all their members (each member apparently has the ability to pull the data on all the members as a whole regarding their "About Me" sections in their profiles [i.e., MBTI type, enneagram type, etc.]), and thought that, while their charts were pretty good, I could probably make em better (please excuse the INTJ). So, in light of the effort in this thread, I decided to go and do it, so we could compare @BlackCat's opinions about MBTI-Enneagram correlations against the empirical data from PersonalityCafe. Now, I remind you, this data is based on what 14,000 members put in their profiles, with about 30% leaving their enneagram type blank and 10% leaving their MBTI type blank. Obviously, some people will be unintentionally mistyped, in one or even both systems, and some people may have intentionally mistyped. But with 14,000 members, and 90% including their MBTI, and 70% including their enneagram type, I think the data is at least worth looking at. It certainly isn't perfect, but almost no study ever is, and, if we make the assumption that the 30% of people who left their enneagram types blank would have their enneagram types be distributed in roughly the same manner as the 70% who included them (and this assumption isn't too heinous), then, aside from mistypes, and the fact that people of certain MBTI type-Enneagram type combinations might have a greater or lesser propensity for joining a personality forum, the data would be clean.

    So, with all that being said, here's Blackcat's data again:



    And here's their data:



    Obviously, their data doesn't take into account wings, but we can still gather meaningful observations by comparing the two.

    [will be including my observations here]

    In their data ENFJs are correlated with 9<4=6<3=7<2. As Blackcat argued, ENFJ 8s are very rare (~1% in their data), but, as others argued, ENFJ 9s are more common than previously thought (~6%). Their data also predicts more ENFJ 7s than in Blackcat's opinion (BlackCat figured they'd be rare, but their data has them tied for the second most common), and fewer enneagram 1s.

    In their data, ESFJs are correlated with 1<9<3=4<6<2. Their data have fewer ones, more 9s, fewer 3s, and more 4s than Blackcat's opinions would imply. These are interesting and rather significant deviations from Blackcat's opinion, moreso than for most of the other types. It should be noted that ESFJs, despite their significant makeup of the general population, are the least represented MBTI type on the forum (they only make up ~0.6% of the forum [vs __% in the general population]), so this data, which includes only ~90 ESTJs, may not be a large enough sample to create a representative distribution.

    In their data, ENTJs are correlated with 1<6<3<8, which is roughly what Blackcat's opinions would imply.

    In their data, ESTJs are correlated with enneagrams 8<1<6<3, which are the same four most common types as predicted by Blackcat, but there are fewer ESTJ 8s in their data than in Blackcat's opinion. Perhaps, once again, enneagram 8s (and particularly sensor 8s) just don't join personality forums as frequently? I somewhat doubt it has to do with ESTJ 8s being disproportionately in the "unknown" pile. Also, ftr, despite their significant makeup of the general population, ESTJs are one of the two least represented MBTI types on the forum (second only to ESFJs [each make up ~0.6% of the forum {vs __% and __%, respectively, in the general population}]), so this data, which includes ~90 ESTJs, may not be a large enough sample to create a representative distribution.
    Very nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, I agree.

    There definitely doesn't seem to be any consensus theory as to why people have the enneagram type they do, but the child's relationship to its parents seems to be one of the more prominent and sensible ones out there.
    Yes. Personally I tend toward the notion that psychological type is the/a nature/hardwiring component, and enneagram is the result of the nurture/hardwiring component interacting with said nature/environment/dynamic component. This would explain why certain enneagrams are more common among certain types given one’s nature/leaning will affect response to the nurture component, while still allowing for variance in result due to wildly different development scenarios.

    Parenthetically, I tend to lean on the side of nature/hardwiring for instinctual stackings as well, although open to conjecture on that.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I am still skeptical about the innateness of enneagram because I honestly think that if I had a different life experience I would probably be a 2 or 3 ENFJ now but they seem kinda foreign to me. lol
    Maybe it's like a feedback loop? Your life situation --> The way you act --> Your life situation, etc.
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Maybe it's like a feedback loop? Your life situation --> The way you act --> Your life situation, etc.
    Hell, this makes sense to me. For a brief discussion of the causes of neuroses (which, well, is the thing that we're talking about), see also: Wikipedia.

    I'd find it very hard to believe that neuroses are caused solely by 'nature' or genetics. You want to explain oddball combinations? Find oddball childhood environments--or at least environments where one's natural preferences weren't valued.

  4. #124
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Barely any Ps are 1s (lulz) (only 3/4 IPs)
    No Ts are 2s (lulz)
    Barely any Is are 3s (only INTJ and ISTP [in that order])
    Barely any Ts are 4s (only INTP and INTJ)
    Few Es are 5s (only ENTPs)
    Is are more likely to be 6w5s
    Es are more likely to be 6w7s

    Few Is are 7s (only SPs)
    Few Is are 8s (only ISTP, INTJ, ISTJ)
    Barely any Es are 9s (only EFPs [and those are rare])

    6s, 9s, and 3s are the least correlated to any one MBTI type
    Among enneagram 6s, extroverts are more likely to be 6w7, and introverts 6w5
    Only Fs who are commonly 6w5s are INFPs and INFJs
    Only Is who are commonly 6w7s are the sensors

    Only Es who are commonly 6w5s are ENTP, ENTJ, and ESTJ
    So does that make me a rare/uncommon case, or mistyped?

    [ - Fe is giving, Fi is selfish :P]
    That's not always true. Fi is driven by a set of internal values, and those values could adhere to many things deemed desirable, such as selflessness and empathy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    CP 6 ESPs also love being edgy in general to get reactions and feel some form of power for themselves [...]
    Like Anakin Skywalker.

    ENTJ 9- I still think the idea of an ENTJ 9 is ridiculous... The apathy, the totally passive attitude, the fact that most 9s totally avoid introspection and aren't exactly the intellectual kind.
    If that's the case, then you can rule out 9 for me!
    MBTI: INFP
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  5. #125
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    Post number 666 for me is going on the bad luck Black Cat thread! I will log out now and post no more for today just to prove it!

  6. #126
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I know everyone is nitpicking... but 5w4 seems pretty common for INFPs, especially the males. It seems as or slightly more common then being a 6, IMO. The PersC data Zarathustra posted shows it's as common as 9 even... I notice mistyped INFPs tend to be 9s mistyped as 4, not 6s, and when they are not truly 5s, then they're usually 4s. I think while 6 is not rare for INFPs, it's a tad overrated.

    I think ENFPs being 4s is not odd at all, but 7w6s also mistype as 4s a lot too.

    EDIT: Oh yeah... INFJ as 3w4s dont seem so rare as to be non-existent. I know there are at least a few INFJs around here who identify as 3w4, and I've had two in my life (and no they are not eNFJs). Since 3 is associated with Je, this is not so strange as an INFP e3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Yes. Personally I tend toward the notion that psychological type is the/a nature/hardwiring component, and enneagram is the result of the nurture/hardwiring component interacting with said nature/environment/dynamic component. This would explain why certain enneagrams are more common among certain types given one’s nature/leaning will affect response to the nurture component, while still allowing for variance in result due to wildly different development scenarios.
    I agree with this.... enneagram literature pretty much boils it down to early experience or "nurturing", and IMO, how we interpret these "messages" will have a lot to do with our cognitive preferences.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #127
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Yes. Personally I tend toward the notion that psychological type is the/a nature/hardwiring component, and enneagram is the result of the nurture/hardwiring component interacting with said nature/environment/dynamic component. This would explain why certain enneagrams are more common among certain types given one’s nature/leaning will affect response to the nurture component, while still allowing for variance in result due to wildly different development scenarios.

    Parenthetically, I tend to lean on the side of nature/hardwiring for instinctual stackings as well, although open to conjecture on that.
    Yes (although I imagine you got your nature and nurture around the wrong way - but I know what you mean). This is what I was trying to say earlier.; your MBTI limits the scope of possible Enneagram responses to your environment.

    For example, an INFP growing up a 8-like environment, all about dominance, conflict and aggression, would probably end up a 9 (or a 5 or 6). He/she would avoid conflict and become more deferential, rather than internalise those 8 qualities. However, some people will argue that being overly controlled as a child = desire to seize control over others as an adult. The point is, people react differently to the same environment. Why? Because their difference in temperament leads them to respond in diverging ways. So I also don't really think it's as simple as, " ______ type of environment results in _______ Enneatype". To me it's more, "______ temperament in _______ type of environment results in a) b) or c) Enneatypes".
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #128
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    I just wanted to point out that, while googling "MBTI Enneagram correlation", I ran across this site (http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/journal.html), and I can't help but laugh at how much more knowledgeable many of us on the forum seem to be about MBTI-Enneagram correlations than people who have started sites or written books about these matters. Honestly, I've been reading Riso and Hudson's stuff, and their MBTI-Enneagram correlations are fucking laughable, pretty much everyone in this thread that has read him seems to agree that Naranjo's correlations are terrible, and the site I linked to above is just ridiculous.

    That site is pretty old (started in 1998, I think, and doesn't seem to have been updated since 2005), so, in some ways, it's interesting to see how much our knowledge about this stuff has progressed (Riso and Hudson's latest version of 'Personality Types' was written in 1997, and Naranjo's 'Character and Neurosis' was 1993, I believe, so, while I'm not saying they've necessarily gotten any wiser about this stuff, we at least now have the benefit of 15-20 years of thinking to make things clearer for ourselves).
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 05-31-2012 at 02:22 PM.

  9. #129
    Senior Member acronach's Avatar
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    Sorry to necro, but I think this should be stickied. I'm probably gonna use the chart itself more and I don't want to look through pages of threads to find it.
    Enneagram: Type 5, Dual Wing, SX/SP Instinct, Tritype 5-3w2-9w8
    MBTI: INTP

    Like a Baws

    Introverted (I) 57.14% Extroverted (E) 42.86%
    Intuitive (N) 63.16% Sensing (S) 36.84%
    Thinking (T) 70.37% Feeling (F) 29.63%
    Perceiving (P) 56.61% Judging (J) 43.39%

  10. #130
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acronach View Post
    Sorry to necro, but I think this should be stickied. I'm probably gonna use the chart itself more and I don't want to look through pages of threads to find it.

    If you send someone a reputation comment (you can 'rep' this post by clicking on the little star icon under my avatar/username and leaving a comment in the pop-up box) then you'll be able to find threads you like easily, because there's list of reputation comments you've given others on the bottom of your "user cp" page with links to the post it's referring to. The reputation system itself was disabled a while back, so this won't interfere with actual 'reputation points'- members only use it now to send comments to each other. And I occasionally use it to bookmark threads like this.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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