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View Poll Results: wimpiest enneagram

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  • 1

    3 5.08%
  • 2

    5 8.47%
  • 3

    1 1.69%
  • 4

    12 20.34%
  • 5

    1 1.69%
  • 6

    7 11.86%
  • 7

    1 1.69%
  • 8

    3 5.08%
  • 9

    15 25.42%
  • none of them

    11 18.64%
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  1. #51
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Let's make things interesting by ignoring that 'good point' and also arguing that 9s aren't wimpy.

    On the surface level, at least, 9s stereotypically don't really want or need a whole lot out of life. They want harmony and simplicity, generally, and they are pretty unimposing. If they just plain don't want a lot--that is, if they don't have a lot of things that they want to 'will into existence' in the first place, are they wimpy?

    Can we contrast them to the types that are extremely picky about what they want and strive to make every single detail of their external reality 'perfect' by their own estimation?

    Would we regard the more adaptable, accepting, and accommodating types as lacking a will and thus wimpy? To me, it could be that they simply don't want to dictate a whole fat lot about the world around them--that they may truly want to instead act as catalysts for others (as, say, psychologists and counselors do) or to provide stability.
    Agreed. There are all kinds of strengths, depending on the situation. A 9 might like to chill and be unassuming, but that doesn't stop them from handling a crisis. They're good at dealing with changing circumstances. Some who are more controlling don't know how to be strong about that. I've seen many people like this lose their shit. edit: Btw, I'm not a 9 myself. Not trying to show some preference. I'm just saying.

  2. #52
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Agreed. There are all kinds of strengths, depending on the situation. A 9 might like to chill and be unassuming, but that doesn't stop them from handling a crisis. They're good at dealing with changing circumstances. Some who are more controlling don't know how to be strong about that. I've seen many people like this lose their shit.
    it will if they aren't integrated. an average/unhealthy can be great at comforting and mediating, but if you're talking about facing/dealing with a problem directly and being willing to deal with any conflict that comes up, we're talking about an integrated 9
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    wrong, 9s are self forgetting and disconnected from their own thoughts and feelings (actually, they're disconnected from just about everything most of the time).
    Oh, yeah; whoops
    healthy 9s because proactive, discover their voice, what they want for themselves, what they want to do and go out and get it, but until then, they are extremely wimpy
    I don't buy that healthy versions of the type would become all 'balls-out' and super-direct about what they want. But then, I don't buy the whole notion of 'directions of integration and disintegration,' either--a discussion for another time and another place, I suppose. I believe that your description either comes from conflating healthiness with balls-out assertiveness/aggressiveness, from 9 integrating with 3, or from my own incomplete understanding of the details of the type--I'm not sure which, but you do make a convincing case against my devil's advocate argument for 9..

    --

    Regarding accommodation, I have found that one of the best ways to get what I want is to win others over to the cause--which means accommodating them to at least some degree, meeting them on their level and leading them to mine, bridging the gap, learning to communicate, and so on.

    Personally, I know that I will not follow so-called leaders who do not listen to their teams--because if they have a vision, in the end, they will not have a team to carry it out. Several of the teams that I've led that have resulted in an execution of one of my visions--giving me what I want in the process--occurred because I was able to give others what they wanted as well.

    Another habit to increase effectiveness from the Seven Habits? Striving for 'win/win' solutions. So, nah; if the definition of 'not wimpy' is 'effective,' accommodating types are pretty much not wimpy--if they can play to their strengths, and if we don't regard accommodating to mean completely selling one's soul to appease others.

    Being effective means having a clear picture of what you want and knowing how best to carry it out--and how best to utilize resources, including other people.

    --

    To the general question--if a person is adaptable but principled, but not particularly picky, should we regard them as wimpy because they have no specific will to assert? Should the pickiest types be regarded as the least wimpy because they have more to assert? What if they get all neurotic if their will isn't carried out to the last detail?

    Picky types have a lot of specific, detailed will to assert, and they fight tooth and nail for the world to accommodate them. It's not a particularly healthy attitude, but it seems that it's not wimpy in the sense that we mean, either.

  4. #54
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    You guys have moved past this already, but it seems that the distinction between weakness and wimpiness has been overlooked.

    [YOUTUBE="uW9Q1cm_Tnw"]Perfect example of a wimp[/YOUTUBE]

  5. #55
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Oh, yeah; whoops
    I don't buy that healthy versions of the type would become all 'balls-out' and super-direct about what they want. But then, I don't buy the whole notion of 'directions of integration and disintegration,' either--a discussion for another time and another place, I suppose. I believe that your description either comes from conflating healthiness with balls-out assertiveness/aggressiveness, from 9 integrating with 3, or from my own incomplete understanding of the details of the type--I'm not sure which, but you do make a convincing case against my devil's advocate argument for 9..
    it does in the case of 9s.

    Regarding accommodation, I have found that one of the best ways to get what I want is to win others over to the cause--which means accommodating them to at least some degree, meeting them on their level and leading them to mine, bridging the gap, learning to communicate, and so on.
    Personally, I know that I will not follow so-called leaders who do not listen to their teams--because if they have a vision, in the end, they will not have a team to carry it out. Several of the teams that I've led that have resulted in an execution of one of my visions--giving me what I want in the process--occurred because I was able to give others what they wanted as well.
    Another habit to increase effectiveness from the Seven Habits? Striving for 'win/win' solutions. So, nah; if the definition of 'not wimpy' is 'effective,' accommodating types are pretty much not wimpy--if they can play to their strengths, and if we don't regard accommodating to mean completely selling one's soul to appease others.
    Being effective means having a clear picture of what you want and knowing how best to carry it out--and how best to utilize resources, including other people.
    I agree with all of this, this is why I said I don't think accommodating people are wimpy. it is a useful, powerful and necessary in a business setting. that said, people with overly accommodating personalities get on my nerves.


    To the general question--if a person is adaptable but principled, but not particularly picky, should we regard them as wimpy because they have no specific will to assert? Should the pickiest types be regarded as the least wimpy because they have more to assert?
    no and no. the principled person knows what he wants, he's just willing to accept a broad range of things that fall under the umbrella of what that is. the picky person is assertive and making an effort to get their way. internally at least, this is not wimpy.

    Picky types have a lot of specific, detailed will to assert, and they fight tooth and nail for the world to accommodate them. It's not a particularly healthy attitude, but it seems that it's not wimpy in the sense that we mean, either.
    agreed
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Gotta do something at least. Just put your hands up and defend yourself. The "damage is done", but the damage can always get worse.
    i dont really SEE the world.
    theres simply no way i could see it when someone intentionally surprice attacks on me, as i anyways dont pay attention..

    while i certainly have better reflexes than them, for being a fencer, it aint enough, should also be able to see it in the first place and i only will if im specifically in the see mode. (aka zooming my eyes to see some object with more quality, but then i dont even do that every day.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    ...no. sometimes you need to make peace. I'm not suggesting you turn into some aggressive macho thug or anything but 24/7 peace 52 weeks out of the year is impossible. you have to address issues and conflict in order for them to be resolved, and sometimes it's messy.
    well, thats exactly what i mean. they are ready to stand for peace even if its messy. im not.

    you don't see the point in
    - defending yourself?
    - making it clear that there are punishments for attacking you so as to prevent future attacks?
    - teaching the other person a lesson so he doesn't do the same to others? (seriously, this does teach most of them a lesson. proverbs says to ride a fool with a rod on his back)
    - lessening the chance of getting seriously injured
    apathy and self forgetting =/= strength. you are not a background flower, you are a person with rights (among them defending yourself) and importance in this world. inaction is not going to make the world a better place, either for yourself or for others
    the people who attack me are randoms, people i dont know.. if someone knows me, theres no way they would ever attack, as im nice enough to treat everyone as if they were as beautiful as i even when they are not, and by doing so i make them actually become more beautiful by gaining the confidence to.
    (ive noticed sensors in particular, expect to be looked down by me since my beauty has no comparison, but when i give genuine interest, it lightens them up so much.)

    sensor logic.. its either beauty or some other appearance factor for them ugh.. <.<
    and these filthy ones make the illogical assument i would talk of _them_ when im laughing when talking to someone. (and i dont particularly hide smiling at all, something they interpret incorrectly.)
    UGHF... arrogant people, always expecting others to speak of them. when in fact i never would sacrifice a word so boring. not like i wanted to take the risk of entering sensoric discussions by bringing them up, i rather avoid such as much as i can.

    also, self defence is illegal here. although attacking doesnt really seem, .. <.< or the punishment for attacking is inexistent. and thus not even worth to mention to police, since they are anyways flooded with assaults they couldnt care to do anything about.

    laws, SO justful........

    this country is screwed up. if they just made self defence legal, id carry a rapier everywhere around. would fit perfectly my rather fantasy/sci-fi look and eh, guess they wouldnt attack then since i know how to use rapiers.

    also, finland is filled with these kind of people. they are everywhere, theres simply far too many of them for any impact to happen even if one were to remove 100 of them.
    its no wonder, since the laws here are as good as useless.
    criminal/violence paradise.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    no and no. the principled person knows what he wants, he's just willing to accept a broad range of things that fall under the umbrella of what that is. the picky person is assertive and making an effort to get their way. internally at least, this is not wimpy.
    Ah, cool. This was pretty much my thought, too.

    I'll have to mull over 9. I'm sure that, as you hint at, becoming a healthy 9 has to do with overcoming a sense of self-denial (especially in denying their anger), figuring out what they want, and asserting what they want.

    Certain other types seem to have problems truly 'figuring out what they want' but not in 'asserting.'


    What about 4? It seems that they are introspective and thus may have a good sense of what they want, but they may or may not actually wind up doing something about it. It may actually fit your definition of 'wimpiness' more, since they may have a clear picture of what they want but do not assert it.


  8. #58

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    I've always thought the one descriptions sounded wimpy. 4 and phobic 6 read more emotionally volatile so don't sound as wimpy.

  9. #59
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Ah, cool. This was pretty much my thought, too.
    I'll have to mull over 9. I'm sure that, as you hint at, becoming a healthy 9 has to do with overcoming a sense of self-denial (especially in denying their anger), figuring out what they want, and asserting what they want.
    Certain other types seem to have problems truly 'figuring out what they want' but not in 'asserting.'
    What about 4? It seems that they are introspective and thus may have a good sense of what they want, but they may or may not actually wind up doing something about it.
    4s tend to be wimpy because
    - they are easily hurt and offended by trivial things and tend to make a scene about this (I have literally known a 4, I think she was INFJ, who got offended and stomped her foot on the ground because I said she looked good in pink, because she said it "implied I thought she was like a barbie doll when she is the total opposite" so I said "go fuck yourself. I'm not going to take the time to cater to your bizarre emotional insecurities. woman up!" everyone else thought I was being a jerk, but she more than deserved that for throwing a tantrum about me saying she looked good in pink.)
    - they are in touch with their feelings, but often not their actual desires
    - they are frequently extremely depressed, shame ridden and angry...that doesn't sound like someone who is achieving what they truly desire.
    - that said, healthy 4s are fiery, charismatic and artistic geniuses. I think they're totally bad ass (case in point, Maria Callas. she is a DIVA!!! )
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  10. #60
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I've always thought the one descriptions sounded wimpy. 4 and phobic 6 read more emotionally volatile so don't sound as wimpy.
    emotionally volatile is wimpy
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