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View Poll Results: wimpiest enneagram

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  • 1

    3 5.08%
  • 2

    5 8.47%
  • 3

    1 1.69%
  • 4

    12 20.34%
  • 5

    1 1.69%
  • 6

    7 11.86%
  • 7

    1 1.69%
  • 8

    3 5.08%
  • 9

    15 25.42%
  • none of them

    11 18.64%
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  1. #111
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    I'm honing in on this bit: "they hold their values both inside and out".

    I don't see E9 as being especially value driven, their MBTI type would have more influence on that, and as an ENTP; the type that doesn't hold and stick to strong morals for the most part, the influence is strong. Not that we're amoral it's just that we see everything in grey-scale when it comes to morals, there is always more information that can be brought to the table which can change the outcome so nothing is held to strongly.

    So from an ENTP E9 perspective I do not hold my values both inside and out. I do have ease of access to Fe so outside values do play a part but personal internal values are more of a Fi thing.

    I also wouldn't say that an E9 is ready to take a stand, everyone has their boundaries that once crossed means fight but the fight/flight response has E9s firmly in the 'withdraw' first category, figuratively speaking. We withdraw from problems, withdraw away from reality, we may not withdraw from a physical confrontation but we would first attempt to appease the situation verbally, we're peacekeepers when we can be.

    If the definition of wimpy is to be "weak, cowardly, or ineffectual person" then nothing about an E9 has them placed either way, you could consider avoiding issues weak, you could consider avoiding conflict cowardly and you could consider not facing reality ineffectual, but they're not necessarily as the view is subjective.

    The thing to keep in mind is E9 is in the anger triad, we are most out of touch with anger but it tends to go one of two ways when activated, rage or suppression. An E9 on rage would not be pleasant, or deemed wimpy I expect.
    enneagram is all about values.
    in fact, thats exactly what it represents, your values.

    9 values peace and they are ready to defend what they value.

    a mindless savage person attacks someone defenseless, and in this specific case you know its wrong, if there are no laws against killing the attacker, would you?
    considering it would be effortless for you to do so, you are carrying a machete or something coincidentally in this lawless world.

    no?
    you could be the next target, too bad you didnt proceed into an action.
    (Ti moral, while Fi might had done it even if it wasnt possible for them to be the next victim or if they didnt consider that possibility.)

    just cause ti users have less values or they might be blurred doesnt mean you necessarily hold them less firmly.

    fi generates values, but it _doesnt_ carry them out on anyone but _themselves_ by itself.

    and with aid of Fe, i dont see why Ti couldnt generate them, besides Fe is more action oriented with their values than Fi. thus more likely for Fe's to act upon them, while Fi is rather working in the background.

    just cause your values are selfish doesnt mean you dont have them.
    you just arent well developed enough to include others in, which isnt suprising since maturity rarely is a thing NT's care about.

    "there is always more information that can be brought to the table which can change the outcome so nothing is held to strongly."
    that is true, and i value it to the extend nothing in morals is predetermined, only my own setting are and even they evolve constantly as i gain more self understanding.

    "I do have ease of access to Fe so outside values do play a part but personal internal values are more of a Fi thing."
    Ti can play the same role as Fi, you just valuate the internal side without feelings, by using thinking which can be developed and occasionally you will have to think about what you really want from life, in which case primitive Fi may come into play, unless your goal is 100% achievable without its aid as you anyways wont need it for anything else than to define what youre able to enjoy and that data is then for the rest of your life accessible without use of Fi, unless you want to edit your preferences. (aka not going in the mainstream. which is usual for healthy Ji before Je users.)

    and you anyways use Fi, even ixtp's do.
    its what dictates your set of preferences for leisure activities mostly, on Ti user types. you know those precious times when your more than just interested at something fascinating, when it goes beyond intellectual benefit.

    for example, Se/Fe loops often enjoy watching others in pain, but i dont see this enjoyment coming empathy. but rather a primitive way of expressing Fi.

    and this stereotype of Fi being moral function is just so wrong, as it has much more than mere values in it.


    the role of Ji, both of them is pretty much to find a personal agenda for whatever actions whether inside or outside head you are to take.
    the F element just means review in moral standards and T makes the standards based on effectiveness, and e/i is for the PoV and direction of use.

    and by messing with the P/J E/I axis of mbti types, you can change the order of said processes and by messing with N/S + T/F you can mash whatever you require in the sense of criteria of what is significant.

    we shouldnt try to simplify these things, they are all related and something which requires another cant be described as a whole alone.

    same thing as if you slice car into half, it hardly transports you anywhere.

    i guess these simplfying standards are set upon by the sensor domination.. which is rather destructive knowledgewise.


    actionwise, ennea 9s do hold their values both ways. for the internal peace your ready for outside actions, to have the internal freedom. you are ready for self defence, while i would take the beating and were laws not stopping me, remove the problem permanently from this realm by later planned actions.

    or in that case, i would prefer to remove the problem permanently before it becomes a problem in case there is no other ways, which often is the case for alcoholics wiith forever 7 year old violentic personality.

    (have met adult people who seriously listened to children directed swearing music. one which attacked me later with only reason being it's stupidity.)

  2. #112
    Senior Member Hyacinth's Avatar
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    Two's can be, just a little bit.

  3. #113
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    enneagram is all about values.
    in fact, thats exactly what it represents, your values.

    9 values peace and they are ready to defend what they value.
    We were looking at different things there then. So sure, peace is vital to 9s but you do see the issue with "defending" to keep the peace? Contradiction.

    just cause ti users have less values or they might be blurred doesnt mean you necessarily hold them less firmly.
    As a Ne-Ti type I'm saying the opposite, we may have the ability to have as many values as anyone else but we hold them less firmly as something can always change the way we frame things. It's the Ne-Ti combination, not Ti on it's own.

    just cause your values are selfish doesnt mean you dont have them.
    you just arent well developed enough to include others in, which isnt suprising since maturity rarely is a thing NT's care about.
    You've made a leap there, I didn't claim that my values were selfish, I said they aren't hard and fast.

    The suggestion that maturity is rarely a thing NTs care about is absurd.

    actionwise, ennea 9s do hold their values both ways. for the internal peace your ready for outside actions, to have the internal freedom. you are ready for self defence, while i would take the beating and were laws not stopping me, remove the problem permanently from this realm by later planned actions.

    or in that case, i would prefer to remove the problem permanently before it becomes a problem in case there is no other ways, which often is the case for alcoholics wiith forever 7 year old violentic personality.
    Are you talking strictly about a situation where your life is in danger? In that situation the morality of the question is of little interest to me, most people will front up if it's kill or be killed, those who don't generally do so in the name of pacifism. For me personally I'm a non-aggression pacifist, meaning if you threaten the life of me or someone who cannot defend themselves I will take measures to stop you, otherwise I won't start jack.

    But if we're not talking about a threat like that: As a 9 gets more and more stressed and moves down the levels they become more and more insular, one of the first (unhealthy) coping methods is to shut down awareness of what is happening to disrupt the peace, this is opposite of what you are implying. 9s don't tend to fight for their internal peace, they need it but unless you're looking at those who live at health levels 1 or 2, when it's disrupted they shut down, they do not get active.

  4. #114
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    hmm, as a 4 i think our own whimpy moments are more genuinely whimpy because we may be more likely to actually doubt what we think rather then just being afraid to say it - for the rare extroverted 4s, we might express that self-doubt out loud.

    on the other hands 6s and 9s have a lot more whimpy moments....

  5. #115
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    We were looking at different things there then. So sure, peace is vital to 9s but you do see the issue with "defending" to keep the peace? Contradiction.
    the difference is, _whose_ peace. 9 is a mixture of both 8 and 1, meaning self standing and kind of perectionist flare, they dont poses flare of 2's motives in them. they wont naturally care for others unless theyve _learned_ artificially.


    As a Ne-Ti type I'm saying the opposite, we may have the ability to have as many values as anyone else but we hold them less firmly as something can always change the way we frame things. It's the Ne-Ti combination, not Ti on it's own.



    You've made a leap there, I didn't claim that my values were selfish, I said they aren't hard and fast.

    The suggestion that maturity is rarely a thing NTs care about is absurd.
    not really, statistically speaking F's tend to care a multitude more. and statistics are the only way to generalize typology, so to speak. or any other generalization in that regard.

    (and why NT instead just T, cause they have both leading functions as competitive ones and 3rd + 4th as noncompetitive functions. competitive people just tend to care less, while for those not double competitive might take harder to realize what it is they must achieve to mature, especially double noncompetitive types like isfp.)


    Are you talking strictly about a situation where your life is in danger? In that situation the morality of the question is of little interest to me, most people will front up if it's kill or be killed, those who don't generally do so in the name of pacifism. For me personally I'm a non-aggression pacifist, meaning if you threaten the life of me or someone who cannot defend themselves I will take measures to stop you, otherwise I won't start jack.

    But if we're not talking about a threat like that: As a 9 gets more and more stressed and moves down the levels they become more and more insular, one of the first (unhealthy) coping methods is to shut down awareness of what is happening to disrupt the peace, this is opposite of what you are implying. 9s don't tend to fight for their internal peace, they need it but unless you're looking at those who live at health levels 1 or 2, when it's disrupted they shut down, they do not get active.
    im not really pacifist, but i guess when it comes to actions, i am more pacifist than even those who claim to be such.

    as laws prohobit self defence, i would only gain more problems by defending myself as the damage is done from the initial attack, is irreversible and by defending myself i would risk not only further chance for permanent health injuries but also the punishments of laws, which for some reason punish the attacked more than attackers. (for the reason, majority in this country belong to the attacker group and thus democrat.. UGH, hate democracy.)

    but i would carry a machete constantly around if i were allowed self defence, my precious fingers i wouldnt endanger however as it could destroy my dream of musical career. + aggreviate the attacker into doing further damage to me, possibly even destroying some body part i need for my dream career.

    the point is, odds for anything positive happening from self defence is inexistent, and likely to cause only more problems for me. yeah, justful world.

    and im thinking of anyways starting to carry a machete everywhere around, screw laws, its too unsafe out there.

  6. #116
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I'm going with 9s. The ones in my life drive me nuts also. They react to conflict by sticking their head in the sand, stubbornly refusing to be engaged, and just flat out ignoring problems so they get worse & worse. It comes off as spineless, apathetic, & lazy to me.

    There's a description out there of the 4 & 9 relationship dynamic which hits the nail on the head for me - it basically says 9s find 4s difficult, demanding, too critical, & too temperamental. 4s find 9s too passive, too stuck in their comfortable ruts, and too uncommunicative.

    I'm emotionally sensitive & have a timid demeanor at times, which could certainly be seen as "wimpy", but I also have something of a temper & high principles I don't back down from. The integration at 1 (critical & morally driven) & general passionate nature of a 4 prevents most from being doormat-ish, IMO. I think it's the depressive slant that probably appears "wimpy".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #117
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm going with 9s. The ones in my life drive me nuts also. They react to conflict by sticking their head in the sand, stubbornly refusing to be engaged, and just flat out ignoring problems so they get worse & worse. It comes off as spineless, apathetic, & lazy to me.
    There's a description out there of the 4 & 9 relationship dynamic which hits the nail on the head for me - it basically says 9s find 4s difficult, demanding, too critical, & too temperamental. 4s find 9s too passive, too stuck in their comfortable ruts, and too uncommunicative.
    I'm emotionally sensitive & have a timid demeanor at times, which could certainly be seen as "wimpy", but I also have something of a temper & high principles I don't back down from. The integration at 1 (critical & morally driven) & general passionate nature of a 4 prevents most from being doormat-ish, IMO. I think it's the depressive slant that probably appears "wimpy".
    with all types, levels of health play into this assessment, but probably more for 4 than other types
    unhealthy 4s: clingy, emotionally neurotic messes that are nothing short of pathetic
    healthy 4s: charismatic, flamboyant, expressive, principled
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  8. #118
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm going with 9s. The ones in my life drive me nuts also. They react to conflict by sticking their head in the sand, stubbornly refusing to be engaged, and just flat out ignoring problems so they get worse & worse. It comes off as spineless, apathetic, & lazy to me.
    There's a description out there of the 4 & 9 relationship dynamic which hits the nail on the head for me - it basically says 9s find 4s difficult, demanding, too critical, & too temperamental. 4s find 9s too passive, too stuck in their comfortable ruts, and too uncommunicative.
    I'm emotionally sensitive & have a timid demeanor at times, which could certainly be seen as "wimpy", but I also have something of a temper & high principles I don't back down from. The integration at 1 (critical & morally driven) & general passionate nature of a 4 prevents most from being doormat-ish, IMO. I think it's the depressive slant that probably appears "wimpy".
    with all types, levels of health play into this assessment, but probably more for 4 than other types
    unhealthy 4s: clingy, emotionally neurotic messes that are nothing short of pathetic: wimpy
    healthy 4s: charismatic, flamboyant, expressive, principled: not wimpy
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  9. #119
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    with all types, levels of health play into this assessment, but probably more for 4 than other types
    True dat. Even Type 9s aren't wimpy when they are healthy.
    MBTI: INFP
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  10. #120
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    True dat. Even Type 9s aren't wimpy when they are healthy.
    you're right.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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