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View Poll Results: What Enneagram Type Is Carl Jung?

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  1. #81
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    I thought these were interesting accounts of Jung and Frued's relationship. Naturally I'd say that some of these examples might reflect choosing social harmony over truth. Then again, since I'm biased. I'll just post it here, given that these sort of behaviours could be found within all types of individuals.

    In fact the whole thing is pretty interesting... claims of people feeling hurt because of the lack of acknowledgement about homoerotic crushes and so fourth.
    http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/freud.htm

    That above is just plain strange.
    Freud then implied in a letter that Jung was somehow physically responsible for some trickery, as in the example of the noises heard during a seance with the room conveniently darkened so no one can detect the actual causes.

    And yet Jung devoted his life to reasoning out the source of paranormal phenomenon, although in the long run he knew that it was beyond all reasoning.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #82
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Therefore whoever considers the event from outside always sees only that it already was, and that it is always the same. But whoever looks from inside, knows that everything is new. The events that happen are always the same. But the creative depths of man are not always the same. Events signify nothing, they signify only in us. We create the meaning of events. The meaning is and always was artificial. We make it.

    "Because of this we seek in ourselves the meaning of events, so that the way of what is to come becomes apparent and our life can flow again. That which you need comes from yourself, namely the meaning of the event. The meaning of events is not their particular meaning. This meaning exists in learned books. Events have no meaning.

    "The meaning of events is the way of salvation that you create. The meaning of events comes from the possibility of life in this world that you create. It is the mastery of this world and the assertion of your soul in this world. This meaning of events is the supreme meaning, that is not in events, and not in the soul, but is the God standing between events and the soul, the mediator of life, the way, the bridge and the going across."

    Carl Jung, The Red Book
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #83
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Yes, very strange. Try reading "The Red Book" by Carl Jung. You will find in this book much more of a personal, poetic nature, and less of that intended for intellectual consumption.

    Strange that he would say in an interview that he had the most problem with feelings, when we find him writing this in the Red Book:

    "Heal the wounds that doubt inflicts on me, my soul. That too is to be overcome, so that I can recognize your supreme meaning. How far away everything is, and how I have turned back! My spirit is a spirit of torment, it tears asunder my contemplation, it would dismantle everything and rip it apart. I am still a victim of my thinking. When can I order my thinking to be quiet, so that my thoughts, those unruly hounds, will crawl to my feet? How can I ever hope to hear your voice louder, to see your face clearer, when all my thoughts howl?"

    This was a man in search of his soul.
    When the inferior seeks its outlet, it challenges the dominant point of view and dominant point of view needs to step aside. This is really challenging because the dominant function dominated the ego, so its the ego that needs to be challenged and ego wants to hold its viewpoint.

    I had similar experiences. Even tho its the feeling that is the problematic one, its the thinking that gets challenged, at least with dom Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I myself was an INFJ child, then an INFP teen, and now INTP.
    Obviously no reason to argue with you about this, since you clearly are pretty clueless about the subject and you have demonstrated multiple times that your conclusions about the subject arise from this lack of knowledge. And funny how you question my typing skills when you are unable to even type yourself..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  4. #84
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    When the inferior seeks its outlet, it challenges the dominant point of view and dominant point of view needs to step aside. This is really challenging because the dominant function dominated the ego, so its the ego that needs to be challenged and ego wants to hold its viewpoint.

    I had similar experiences. Even tho its the feeling that is the problematic one, its the thinking that gets challenged, at least with dom Ti.
    Jung is speaking to his soul in this book, not to his inferior type.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Obviously no reason to argue with you about this, since you clearly are pretty clueless about the subject and you have demonstrated multiple times that your conclusions about the subject arise from this lack of knowledge. And funny how you question my typing skills when you are unable to even type yourself..
    Do your homework. Even Jung said in that youtube interview that his type had changed since he was a child.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #85
    Senior Member Richardsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Jung's E-type and instinctual are 4w5 So/Sp
    Why... And dont post the oceanmooshine description because they are only generalizations

    He wasn't at all one of them. Dont see shame or self absortion in him (introspection is not the same).
    Im leaning more to 9w1 for him. Inquisitivness is not a synonimous of 5.


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    "Some people never go crazy... What truly horrible lives they must lead"- Charles Bukowski


  6. #86
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardsen View Post
    Why... And dont post the oceanmooshine description because they are only generalizations
    Every description out there is generalizations. But yes, I compared all the oceanmoonshine 4 stackings and reflected on which one is best fit for Jung.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardsen View Post
    He wasn't at all one of them. Dont see shame or self absortion in him (introspection is not the same).
    Im leaning more to 9w1 for him. Inquisitivness is not a synonimous of 5.
    Jung was in a self-absorbed quest to find his soul. I've done a substantial amount of reading lately on this topic. The video interview I had watched months ago, but that's hardly the limit of information on Jung. Try Google books.

    Here Jung engages in an imaginary discourse with his own ego -

    "I resist, I cannot accept this hollow nothing that I am. What am I? What is my I? I always presuppose my I. Now it stands before me-I before my I. I speak now to you, my I:

    "I want you to speak about your shame, and that instead of speaking great words, you utter a discordant clamor before those whose respect you wanted to exact. You deserve mockery; not respect.

    "I will burn out of you the contents of which you were proud, so that you will become empty like a poured-out vessel. You should be proud of nothing more than your emptiness and wretchedness.

    "You should be a vessel of life, so kill your idols. Freedom does not belong to you, but form; not power, but suffering and conceiving.

    "You should make a virtue out of your self-contempt, which I will spread out before men like a carpet. They should walk over it with dirty feet and you should see to it that you are dirtier than all the feet that step on you."

    And so on.

    This is getting down to the core of who Jung was, it's far from being the stuff he wrote about in books intended for mass consumption.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #87
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardsen View Post
    Why... And dont post the oceanmooshine description because they are only generalizations

    He wasn't at all one of them. Dont see shame or self absortion in him (introspection is not the same).
    Im leaning more to 9w1 for him. Inquisitivness is not a synonimous of 5.
    I've looked into the 9w1 possibility. Most striking in Riso's descriptions are the sudden outbursts of anger in this type. Was Jung prone to these? I was also impressed with the 9w1 focus on "ideas, symbols, and concepts," which is obviously true of him.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #88
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    This quote from Jung: A Biography sounds a bit more like type 9 than 4:

    "So many different things had happened in his young life to contribute to this view of himself as unworthy, undeserving, and unlikable. To compensate, he acted withdrawn and distant, as if nothing mattered, when in reality he was consumed with anger and rage. To himself, it seemed as if he were someone else, a coolly detached observer of his own distress."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #89
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Jung is speaking to his soul in this book, not to his inferior type.



    Do your homework. Even Jung said in that youtube interview that his type had changed since he was a child.
    He says that he is struggling with his thinking, i explained why.

    Soul A functional complex in the psyche. (See also Eros, Logos and soul-image.)

    While Jung often used the word soul in its traditional theological sense, he strictly limited its psychological meaning.

    I have been compelled, in my investigations into the structure of the unconscious, to make a conceptual distinction between soul and psyche. By psyche I understand the totality of all psychic processes, conscious as well as unconscious. By soul, on the other hand, I understand a clearly demarcated functional complex that can best be described as a "personality." ["Definitions," CW 6, par. 797]

    With this understanding, Jung outlined partial manifestations of the soul in terms of anima/animus and persona. In his later writing on the transference, informed by his study of the alchemical opus-which Jung understood as psychologically analogous to the individuation process–he was more specific.

    The "soul" which accrues to ego-consciousness during the opus has a feminine character in the man and a masculine character in a woman. His anima wants to reconcile and unite; her animus tries to discern and discriminate.["The Psychology of the Transference," CW 16, par. 522.]
    Saying that he speaks with his soul doesent really tell much about whats really going on.. Anyways i know what the book is about, basically its an memo of active imagination from the time of jungs confrontation with his unconscious.

    I have done my home work and i know that jung said that type isnt static, however, he didnt say that his type changed(do your home work better). This type not being static can mean multiple things, knowing jungs typology it does not neccesarily mean that you switch from INFJ to INFP to INTP on the go. Not to mention that todays research shows that personality doesent change like that.. and that jung said that for example introversion of a function ALWAYS starts from the subjective point of view and leads back to it, so even if jung meant that you can switch type(under some mental brakedown), it seems that he also said that orientation of function doesent change, which would debunk your typology adventures altogether..

    This is like discussing about mechanisms of how the universum transformed from 2D to 3D and its relation to formation of black holes with someone who had few classes on physics in high school..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  10. #90
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    He says that he is struggling with his thinking, i explained why.



    Saying that he speaks with his soul doesent really tell much about whats really going on.. Anyways i know what the book is about, basically its an memo of active imagination from the time of jungs confrontation with his unconscious.

    I have done my home work and i know that jung said that type isnt static, however, he didnt say that his type changed(do your home work better). This type not being static can mean multiple things, knowing jungs typology it does not neccesarily mean that you switch from INFJ to INFP to INTP on the go. Not to mention that todays research shows that personality doesent change like that.. and that jung said that for example introversion of a function ALWAYS starts from the subjective point of view and leads back to it, so even if jung meant that you can switch type(under some mental brakedown), it seems that he also said that orientation of function doesent change, which would debunk your typology adventures altogether..

    This is like discussing about mechanisms of how the universum transformed from 2D to 3D and its relation to formation of black holes with someone who had few classes on physics in high school..
    Jung said his type changed and it has nothing to do with some general theory of type being static. The amount of dynamics in your interpretation isn't even up to enneagram level, and my thought is that Jung was far beyond that. He would never, ever favor the idea that personality type is static.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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