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View Poll Results: What Enneagram Type Is Carl Jung?

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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Meh, in an 1959 interview (3 years before his death) he describes himself as being "capitalized by thinking" & "having a great deal of intuition" as well as "having a great difficulty with feeling" and being "at variance with the reality of things". Capitalized implies it's dominant. However, Jung didn't think type was static throughout life either....
    That doesn't indicate either Te or Ti. But he was very psychic and dreamed about his death months before it happened. He also dreamed about WWI months before it happened. These instances along with many others tell me that he was not an INTP. As psychically-inclined, that makes him an INFJ. And as with many INFJs he had the ability to draw on Ti, the logical systems-builder.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That doesn't indicate either Te or Ti. But he was very psychic and dreamed about his death months before it happened. He also dreamed about WWI months before it happened. These instances along with many others tell me that he was not an INTP. As psychically-inclined, that makes him an INFJ. And as with many INFJs he had the ability to draw on Ti, the logical systems-builder.
    "The occurrence of prospective dreams cannot be denied. It would be wrong to call them prophetic, because at bottom they are no more prophetic than a medical diagnosis or a weather forecast. They are merely an anticipatory combination of probabilities which may coincide with the actual behaviour of things but need not necessarily agree in every detail. Only in the latter case can we speak of "prophecy." That the prospective function of dreams is sometimes greatly superior to the combinations we can consciously foresee is not surprising, since a dream results from the fusion of subliminal elements and is thus a combination of all the perceptions, thoughts, and feelings which consciousness has not registered because of their feeble accentuation. In addition, dreams can rely on subliminal memory traces that are no longer able to influence consciousness effectively. With regard to prognosis, therefore, dreams are often in a much more favourable position than consciousness."

    "General Aspects of Dream Psychology" (1916). In CW 8: The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche. pg. 493

    This dream thing isnt any sort of indication of him being Ni type.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #43
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    " The prospective function, on the other hand, is an anticipation in the unconscious of future conscious achievements, something like a preliminary exercise or sketch, or a planroughed out in advance. . . . The occurrence of prospective dreams cannot be denied. It would be wrong to call them prophetic, because at bottom they are no more prophetic than a medical diagnosis or a weather forecast. They are merely an anticipatory combination of probabilities which may coincide with the actual behaviour of things but need not necessarily agree in every detail. Only in the latter case can we speak of "prophecy." That the prospective function of dreams is sometimes greatly superior to the combinations we can consciously foresee is not surprising, since a dream results from the fusion of subliminal elements and is thus a combination of all the perceptions, thoughts, and feelings which consciousness has not registered because of their feeble accentuation. In addition, dreams can rely on subliminal memory traces that are no longer able to influence consciousness effectively. With regard to prognosis, therefore, dreams are often in a much more favourable position than consciousness."

    "General Aspects of Dream Psychology" (1916). In CW 8: The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche. pg. 493

    This dream thing isnt any sort of indication of him being Ni type.
    "INFJs have uncanny insight into people and situations. They get "feelings" about things and intuitively understand them. As an extreme example, some INFJs report experiences of a psychic nature..."
    http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ.html

    While I certainly do learn things from your posts, skill at typing others is not one of those things.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #44
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    While I certainly do learn things from your posts, skill at typing others is not one of those things.
    What makes you question my typing skills?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #45
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Meh, in an 1959 interview (3 years before his death) he describes himself as being "capitalized by thinking" & "having a great deal of intuition" as well as "having a great difficulty with feeling" and being "at variance with the reality of things". Capitalized implies it's dominant. However, Jung didn't think type was static throughout life either....
    Ultimately there appears to be two pieces of evidence - one which is more vague, the other is more specific but instead a memory recollection of what had been said.

    I suppose it'd be wrong to assume that mysticism is aligned with Ni. But in the same regard, I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that troubles with feelings automatically assume T. When in reality, there are plenty of feelers who would define themselves as having troubles with feeling. It honestly is a vague statement. What exactly does trouble with feelings mean? Expression? Conflict?

    Additionally there's also the debates that constantly pop-up on these forums when Thinkers assume Feelers of not thinking. Yet feelers will constantly say otherwise... Someone characterised by thinking honestly doesn't mean much if he's not referring to functions but instead his general personality (and it does appear to be general personality rather than IENSFT) especially when he saw himself as a man of science. Overall I'm inclined to think that he's either INTP/INFJ or even ISTP on another forum, he certainly had a fair amount of problems in his childhood that would probably make typing a lot more difficult.

    I'm just surprised that he did not delve deeper into what his own functions might have been, as a creator of the system.
    Personality 2 being in line with humanities. Some would argue that the unconsciousness is the truer self. Isn't that what Freud believed in at least?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    What makes you question my typing skills?
    I added a little detail to my last post.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #47
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Ultimately there appears to be two pieces of evidence - one which is more vague, the other is more specific but instead a memory recollection of what had been said.

    I suppose it'd be wrong to assume that mysticism is aligned with Ni. But in the same regard, I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that troubles with feelings automatically assume T.
    That's certainly true, any type can be a mystic. However, the INFJ is often psychic as was the case with Carl Jung. But an INFJ such as him also creates a theory of mind that incorporates theories about psychic experiences and mysticism, and that's where you see the mysticism in his case.

    "Trouble with feelings" is so vague it doesn't provide any information to work with. But it may have something to do with this:

    "INFJs are concerned for people's feelings, and try to be gentle to avoid hurting anyone. They are very sensitive to conflict, and cannot tolerate it very well. Situations which are charged with conflict may drive the normally peaceful INFJ into a state of agitation or charged anger. They may tend to internalize conflict into their bodies, and experience health problems when under a lot of stress."
    http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Someone characterised by thinking honestly doesn't mean much if he's not referring to functions but instead his general personality (and it does appear to be general personality rather than IENSFT) especially when he saw himself as a man of science.
    "In the workplace, the INFJ usually shows up in areas where they can be creative and somewhat independent. They have a natural affinity for art, and many excel in the sciences, ..."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I added a little detail to my last post.
    You should stop reading some stereotypical MBTI descriptions. I have developed an uncanny insight to people after learning about psychology. Types with Ti/Fe feel(as in using feeling function) what other think, while Te/Fi think what others feel. So this stupid stereotype of INFJ doesent tell you anything real.

    This jung intuitively understanding people doesent seem to fit, he analyzed them throughout or used past experiences to dwell deeper into the other persons psyche.

    How do you explain jung that at one point of life had an stage where he stopping listening to what his patients were telling him to a large degree and used earlier experiences to gain an insight on them. Sounds much like being heavily under the influence of Si, doesent it?

    What makes you think that jung was so "psychic" in his nature?


    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That's certainly true, any type can be a mystic. However, the INFJ is often psychic as was the case with Carl Jung. But an INFJ such as him also creates a theory of mind that incorporates theories about psychic experiences and mysticism, and that's where you see the mysticism in his case.

    "Trouble with feelings" is so vague it doesn't provide any information to work with. But it may have something to do with this:

    "INFJs are concerned for people's feelings, and try to be gentle to avoid hurting anyone. They are very sensitive to conflict, and cannot tolerate it very well. Situations which are charged with conflict may drive the normally peaceful INFJ into a state of agitation or charged anger. They may tend to internalize conflict into their bodies, and experience health problems when under a lot of stress."
    http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ.html



    "In the workplace, the INFJ usually shows up in areas where they can be creative and somewhat independent. They have a natural affinity for art, and many excel in the sciences, ..."
    I have also looked into mystical experiences to understand the world before i got into psychology. For example the dream world of australian aboriginals, native american beliefs, buddhism, egyptians etc.

    This isnt something that INFJs do only. You using an argument "INFJ is like this and that" is highly flawed, because those things fit to other types aswell, especially to INTPs. For example this theory of mind thing is far more likely to be done by an INTP than INFJ, but naturally INFJs might do that also.

    About this INFJs being gentle and avoid hurting them thing, this is quite different from jung. He was not concerned about peoples feeling in general and was quite rude at times, naturally this wasnt the case with his patients, since he(like most sane people) see the vurnebility of people who have some issues with their minds.

    This INFJs showing up in areas where they can be creative and somewhat independant. This is also very true with INTP and i would say it to be true more often in INTPs than INFJs, also applies often to ENTPs and other types aswell.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Ultimately there appears to be two pieces of evidence - one which is more vague, the other is more specific but instead a memory recollection of what had been said.

    I suppose it'd be wrong to assume that mysticism is aligned with Ni. But in the same regard, I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that troubles with feelings automatically assume T. When in reality, there are plenty of feelers who would define themselves as having troubles with feeling. It honestly is a vague statement. What exactly does trouble with feelings mean? Expression? Conflict?

    Additionally there's also the debates that constantly pop-up on these forums when Thinkers assume Feelers of not thinking. Yet feelers will constantly say otherwise... Someone characterised by thinking honestly doesn't mean much if he's not referring to functions but instead his general personality (and it does appear to be general personality rather than IENSFT) especially when he saw himself as a man of science. Overall I'm inclined to think that he's either INTP/INFJ or even ISTP on another forum, he certainly had a fair amount of problems in his childhood that would probably make typing a lot more difficult.

    I'm just surprised that he did not delve deeper into what his own functions might have been, as a creator of the system.
    Personality 2 being in line with humanities. Some would argue that the unconsciousness is the truer self. Isn't that what Freud believed in at least?
    Trouble with feeling obviously means trouble with feeling function, definite trouble with it and being always characterized by thinking is obvious T dom F inferior. You are forgetting the fact(which i already mentioned on this topic, but you conveniently ignored it) that he chose his words very carefully and said that this is all the neccesary info to determine his type. Also he said that its a very painful question to him, so he naturally didnt want everyone to view him as some type, but worded his answer so that people who already are somewhat educated on the system can understand him, typical INTP response.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  9. #49
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    You should stop reading some stereotypical MBTI descriptions.
    That complaint is always the last refuge of someone who has run out of arguments. Go tell the MBTI people they are stereotyping. The purpose of these descriptions is to further the task of determining type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #50
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Trouble with feeling obviously means trouble with feeling function, definite trouble with it and being always characterized by thinking is obvious T dom F inferior. You are forgetting the fact(which i already mentioned on this topic, but you conveniently ignored it) that he chose his words very carefully and said that this is all the neccesary info to determine his type. Also he said that its a very painful question to him, so he naturally didnt want everyone to view him as some type, but worded his answer so that people who already are somewhat educated on the system can understand him, typical INTP response.
    Fair enough.

    Also, let's not throw around the whole "You chose to ignore" since I could equally say the same thing with regards to the secondary source of information. Unless you held the same opinion that OrangeAppled had. That someone saying Jung considered himself as introverted intuition is not valid at all, or that he misunderstood himself/changed himself over time (fluid personality). Otherwise, I'm going to leave you to deal with this contradictory piece of information. It's a thorn that you'll have to deal with. Otherwise it's basically being selective with evidence.

    I know that you had mentioned it. This is based off his interview right? Where he goes on about how he's dedicated a large amount of time in attempt to understand himself. You're interpreting his answers as 'carefully selected' because of these statements right?

    so he naturally didnt want everyone to view him as some type, but worded his answer so that people who already are somewhat educated on the system can understand him
    So he wanted to avoid people putting him in one box. Yet at the same time, provides a vague answer that even people who are barely educated on the system will probably read the statement and think... Weak F, Weak S, Strong T, Strong N. It's the most literal and basic reaction. To me, those aren't descriptions of his functions. They're general descriptions of his personality.

    He seemed to struggle in defining his own type. People have suggested in the past that Jung used to associate I with NT, and E with SF. I don't know whether by the end of it he saw F-T as a major distinction from I-E, but it's possible based on that idea that his idea of thinking is more associated with introversion than it is thinking.

    At the end of all this... I now remember how so much of this stuff can be interpreted... You can find evidence for everything to match a certain perspective. =.= Think this is it for me. I'm calling it a day... Just going to focus on my own essay now, which is how useful Analytical Psychology to Psychology. I'm undecided on the issue. Ethanescence provided some good reasoning as well.

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