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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    It has more to do with negatively stereotyping 3s as a group, and less to do with finding individuals who are anti-personality growth.
    Ey dont twist my words I hate that
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    In my limited experience filtered through my own biases and limited perceptions, 3 seems to be among the most hated and 6 among the most pitied in typology discussions. It's pretty weird to me that they're not all seen as (nearly) equally pitiable.
    EXACTLY. 3-bashing goes way, way back, probably before Al Gore invented the internet. But everything is on a level playing field.

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    It seems that, just like any type, they might have to be "humbled" by life experience in order to realize that their ego fixation (in this case, a desire to maintain a perfect and desirable 'image') only goes so far. (I just watched the cute lil' film Rango which, in my estimation, captures this for a possible type 3.)

    I think you're right, though; your hypothetical 3 would be on the mark--the "more advanced" level is an ideal, a mere construct.

    I personally strive for growth across all dimensions, to the point of being an absolute perfectionist with respect to myself and my own capabilities. One 3 motto captured it well, something along the lines of "everyone looks to be relying on me--better not make a mistake." It was actually that desire for growth that has made me ponder type 3 for myself.
    I'll check out Rango. I see type 3 as more of an ENFJ. But it is still an image-orientation, as you said. The Fe looks to society to provide an image of that ideal, such as the beautiful model in the billboard ad.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #33
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Thanks, I'd love to hear more about this.



    In my limited experience filtered through my own biases and limited perceptions, 3 seems to be among the most hated and 6 among the most pitied in typology discussions. It's pretty weird to me that they're not all seen as (nearly) equally pitiable.



    It seems that, just like any type, they might have to be "humbled" by life experience in order to realize that their ego fixation (in this case, a desire to maintain a perfect and desirable 'image') only goes so far. (I just watched the cute lil' film Rango which, in my estimation, captures this for a possible type 3.)

    I think you're right, though; your hypothetical 3 would be on the mark--the "more advanced" level is an ideal, a mere construct.
    --
    I personally strive for growth across all dimensions, to the point of being a perfectionist with respect to myself and my capabilities. I have a hard time "putting it out there" if I feel that it's not going to be perfect. I just plain want to be that ideal, even though it is just an unobtainable construct. One 3 motto captured it well, something along the lines of "everyone looks to be relying on me--better not make a mistake." It was actually that desire for growth that has made me ponder type 3 for myself.
    I don't know why anybody would hate on type 3. Actually, people like to hate on image types (except for the SO SPECIAL 4s; and the love of 4s for that is so thoroughly missing the point that I facepalm every time I see it). Type 2 seems to get the worst of it, but I think that such a need for others to appreciate them is sad, not evil. You sound very much like a 3 in your bottom paragraph. 3s indeed have a strong desire to become their perfect ideal/image. Type 1 is usually associated with perfectionism, but 3s tend to be more... personal, about it.

    Also, I don't understand why everybody wants to be a 7. The 7 feeling of trying to just not run out, to just be ahead of their fear [of pain] that strikes a chord in me.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    I don't know why anybody would hate on type 3. Actually, people like to hate on image types (except for the SO SPECIAL 4s; and the love of 4s for that is so thoroughly missing the point that I facepalm every time I see it). Type 2 seems to get the worst of it, but I think that such a need for others to appreciate them is sad, not evil. You sound very much like a 3 in your bottom paragraph. 3s indeed have a strong desire to become their perfect ideal/image. Type 1 is usually associated with perfectionism, but 3s tend to be more... personal, about it.

    Also, I don't understand why everybody wants to be a 7. The 7 feeling of trying to just not run out, to just be ahead of their fear [of pain] that strikes a chord in me.
    Thanks for all of this. I am still figuring myself out.
    --
    Half-brained question: do people have more hatred toward the more extroverted types in general, since they can potentially be seen as "in your face" or "controlling" and, at least introverts will largely leave you alone?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Thanks for all of this. I am still figuring myself out.
    --
    Half-brained question: do people have more hatred toward the more extroverted types in general, since they can potentially be seen as "in your face" or "controlling" and, at least introverts will largely leave you alone?
    Thank you for being a good audience. Lots of times in "What's my type?" threads, I have to tone down the negativism because people might reject descriptions of themselves that they find too negative.

    I suppose that might be why people don't like extroverts. Extroverts need to dip into a wide pool of information for their dominant function to do it's thing. Introverted functions keep to information already internalized, so they operate more quietly and unnoticeably.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
    • Enneagram? 6 with a strong 7 wing
    • Brony? Yes
    • Stereotypes?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    I don't know why anybody would hate on type 3. Actually, people like to hate on image types (except for the SO SPECIAL 4s; and the love of 4s for that is so thoroughly missing the point that I facepalm every time I see it). Type 2 seems to get the worst of it, but I think that such a need for others to appreciate them is sad, not evil.
    Also, I don't understand why everybody wants to be a 7. The 7 feeling of trying to just not run out, to just be ahead of their fear [of pain] that strikes a chord in me.
    I really agree with you on the way that type 2 is perceived, and this has kind of been a sore spot with me, not the overall description of 2's but the way the unhealthy aspects of 2 gets emphasized and the more healthy aspects dimmed down. Alot like the 3, actually. I also agree that identity seekers can be construed as image-seekers and I know all too well the negative feelings that might be evoked when dealing with those that put tremendous energy into image goals instead of what others might view as more authentic goals. I readily admit that in my own experience of working with groups professionally and academically, 2's and 3's have not caused nearly as much doubt and disrupt as the unhealthy 5's and 6's, though this is a small and subjective sample. There seems to be a golden rule with enneagram, one that I have typically tried to abide by - do not use this knowledge of anothers core fears and weakness against them. Do not push it upon them and emphasize it unless the audience is willing to receive. When I posted that note about e5's, I wasn't saying that MAL is an unhealthy e5, but that if one looks hard enough anytype can be made out to look rotten. I suppose this is obvious. And to be fair it was poor taste on my part. But it definately seems that both 2's and 3's get alot of shit when one rifles through different forums. Shit that to me, seems undeserved, because I have known many 2's and 3's to be very genuine people with positive intentions.

    The bottom line is that ANY type can be fake. 1's can be fake by supressing what speaks to their hearts in an effort to establish right and wrong. A 2 might do it to be loved. A 3 for success and validation. A 4 to believe they are different and original. A 5 might be fake by supressing their physical and emotional realities to emphasize knowledge. A 6 to ward off fears... and on. Fake is a very subjective term, for who is to know what genuine thoughts and feelings occur but the holder? Who can stand from the outside perspective and think they know another better than themself?

    I reserve throwing around terms like "plastic" and "fake" because who the fuck am I to decide, really? And who is anyone else.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #37

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    I think the Enneagram in general has a much more negative focus. Owfin's and Huxley's remarks on types 2 and 4 run perpendicular to mine. My Type 2 ENFP boyfriend thought the Type 4 description was the most negative one in the Riso-Hudson book and he was shocked to find out I typed as a 4. I do not strike him as the self-absorbed, bohemian, image-obsessed 4 carelessly alluded to in the summaries.

    It seems that if one wants to "feel good about themselves," they turn to MBTI. If they want to peel back the mask, they turn to the Enneagram.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    It seems that if one wants to "feel good about themselves," they turn to MBTI. If they want to peel back the mask, they turn to the Enneagram.
    + a billion

    MBTI is great for the initial "oh, people are different!" thing, and Jungian cognitive functions have some depth to them, but the Enneagram is better equipped to help with recognizing personal weak spots.

    It's also worth recognizing that the mask is pretty flippin' painful to tear off and that we all need some forgiveness as we run through the process.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    It seems that, just like any type, they might have to be "humbled" by life experience in order to realize that their ego fixation (in this case, a desire to maintain a perfect and desirable 'image') only goes so far. (I just watched the cute lil' film Rango which, in my estimation, captures this for a possible type 3.)
    Rango is a type 6 cartoon character who reminds me a bit of Don Knotts.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Rango is a type 6 cartoon character who reminds me a bit of Don Knotts.
    Interesting, because I identify a lot with Rango and deliberate over 3 and 6 (not so much 5 anymore) for myself.

    To me, he embodied quite a bit of narcissism and wanted to put on an act to impress other people, he tends to be what other people need him to be, and he seems to embody plasticity as well. I thought those were type 3 traits--does a type 6 have those tendencies as well? Do you think he has type 6's need for security?

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