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  1. #21
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Well, I'm a big Fi user and I found the OP, interesting.. along the lines of 21%. You drudged up one of the more negative type 3 descriptions and threw it on a billboard. Congrats. Did you think you were offering some new take? An original observation? No, I don't take you for such an igit. Yet still.. no questions, no discussion, it's a bit unsettling to me. To be honest, the very first thing I considered had nothing to do with type "fako". My first thoughts were.. 'what does posting a thread like this say about Mal12345?' and 'What might he hope to get out of it?' and 'Why does Mal seem to continually have communication and perception run-ins with virtually every thread he posts and a majority of users?' Yes, clearly the answer is that you are the only anti-pc mo-fo on the forum. Everyone else is being a ginormous, PC fraud.

    With that in mind, I'd like to make note of an interesting E5 description. It goes something like this....

    The Isolated Nihilist

    "The need to keep others at a safe distance to protect their frantic search for mastery sets the stage for Fives to become extremely antagonistic toward anyone who they believe threatens their world. The self doubt becomes so great that almost everything threatens them. They feel hopelessly ill-adapted for life and are profoundly disguisted with the world. Convinced that they are never going to find a place for themselves in society they turn their back on it. Their agressions are aroused when people question their ideas. Opposing individuals must be discredited, their own ideas shown to be worthless.
    In a distorted hope to retain inellectual honesty, unhealthy 5's throw out faith, hope, love and friendship. They burn bridges.. everywhere."

    I find this description very accurate in unhealthy 5's. Woopedy fucking ooo.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Well, I'm a big Fi user and I found the OP, interesting.. along the lines of 21%. You drudged up one of the more negative type 3 descriptions and threw it on a billboard. Congrats. Did you think you were offering some new take? An original observation? No, I don't take you for such an igit. Yet still.. no questions, no discussion, it's a bit unsettling to me. To be honest, the very first thing I considered had nothing to do with type "fako". My first thoughts were.. 'what does posting a thread like this say about Mal12345?' and 'What might he hope to get out of it?' and 'Why does Mal seem to continually have communication and perception run-ins with virtually every thread he posts and a majority of users?' Yes, clearly the answer is that you are the only anti-pc mo-fo on the forum. Everyone else is being a ginormous, PC fraud.
    I thought the implied discussion was "This is interesting, a tie-in between Enneagram and an outside psychological phenomenon. Please discuss this if you agree or disagree." I don't think mal necessarily has ill intentions or biases toward type 3s because of his post.

    The Isolated Nihilist

    "The need to keep others at a safe distance to protect their frantic search for mastery sets the stage for Fives to become extremely antagonistic toward anyone who they believe threatens their world. The self doubt becomes so great that almost everything threatens them. They feel hopelessly ill-adapted for life and are profoundly disguisted with the world. Convinced that they are never going to find a place for themselves in society they turn their back on it. Their agressions are aroused when people question their ideas. Opposing individuals must be discredited, their own ideas shown to be worthless.
    In a distorted hope to retain inellectual honesty, unhealthy 5's throw out faith, hope, love and friendship. They burn bridges.. everywhere."

    I find this description very accurate in unhealthy 5's. Woopedy fucking ooo.
    I know what your intent is, but I'm discussing this anyway.

    To anyone: how does the 5's "self-doubt" described here jive with the 5's trusting his mind and his mind alone? I ask because I doubt myself quite often and didn't see it as a 5 'thing'--but maybe my understanding was off.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    5s don't really trust their mind, so much as they take it as a sanctuary from the world. 5s are suspicious and fearful of the world. They can self-doubting, but it isn't intrinsic to the type like it is for a 6.

    The 6 core is a knot of doubt and anxiety that permeates everything.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
    • Enneagram? 6 with a strong 7 wing
    • Brony? Yes
    • Stereotypes?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I thought the implied discussion was "This is interesting, a tie-in between Enneagram and an outside psychological phenomenon. Please discuss this if you agree or disagree." I don't think mal necessarily has ill intentions or biases toward type 3s because of his post.
    The type 3 hatred thing always did distress me greatly. I first heard about it while chatting by phone with the Enneagram Monthly editor back around 1992. I couldn't understand it then, and I still can't.

    It's not the hatred part I don't get, but that this seems really out of character for these personality-growth wonks.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #25
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I'ld be a big 3 as well, if I just could control preemptive ejaculation
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #26
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The type 3 hatred thing always did distress me greatly. I first heard about it while chatting by phone with the Enneagram Monthly editor back around 1992. I couldn't understand it then, and I still can't.

    It's not the hatred part I don't get, but that this seems really out of character for these personality-growth wonks.
    I'm replying to my own post just to add that I really think it has to do with the fact that the type 3 seems to be the type with the least desire for personal growth, that is, growth of a spiritual nature. I don't know if that's true or not.

    I have noticed that around here I sometimes am looked down at as if I am one of those types. I feel the pain of the type 3 who is attacked by those who pretend to inhabit some "higher personal dimension" of reality. A type 3 would probably reply that nobody is on a more advanced level - and indeed, because of their more honest understanding of life, 3s are actually ahead of the curve.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #27
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I am a 7 and have the least desire for spiritual growth as well. My gf is a 4, same there
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #28
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I thought the implied discussion was "This is interesting, a tie-in between Enneagram and an outside psychological phenomenon. Please discuss this if you agree or disagree."
    Only the OP can know what his original intent was. Since he didn't clearly communicate it (imo) who knows. As said before, no question was asked. No connection was made beyond 3's being plastic and society being plastic. ANy of the following could potentially come up.

    -3's are fake and others are fake, all fake people are reallys 3's
    -what charactoristics do we attribute to 3's fakeness and non-3 fakeness?
    -if fakeness can be found in other enneatypes as one aspect, why do we attribute it as such a profound aspect in 3's?
    -is a 3 really fake if their core goal is validation and they change faces to achieve that goal? Isn't the 3 being very true to its fixation then?
    -what causes a 3 to be a 3? What parts of development are key to the 3 fakeness and key to non-3 fakers? Can this be pin-pointed?
    -if we are not ourselves, who are we?
    -if we transcended words that attempt to define real and fake, could we then agree on meaning?
    -does the act of disliking fake people make one less fake?
    -if one is very preoccupied with finding others fake could it be that they are really identifying what they hate in themselves? (must one be a fake to know a fake?)
    -can someone be a purely fake human-being? Where does real end and fake begin?
    -does being fake and real have a value and how do we set that value?
    -Who is better, a real murderer or a fake teacher?
    -Have 3's secretly taken over the rest of society and started brainwashing their fake 3 values?
    -Are all societys equally fake, or are certain societies prone to this? Why? Do more 3's live amongst these societys?
    -Can we combat fake as a whole? Or must this be done individually? Who would be the ultimate authority on fake?
    -If fake is a way of supressing ones true thoughts and feelings, is everyone on psychological meds a fake?
    -does going to therapy and re-learning positive thought processes make one fake?
    -is makeup, hairdye and pushup bras fake? Are people that use these bad?
    -should the non fakers try to find a genetic marker and weed the fakers out?

    I still do not see the connection in the OP. 3's can be plastic. Societys can be plastic. Has he found a connection or is he asking for one?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am a 7 and have the least desire for spiritual growth as well. My gf is a 4, same there
    It has more to do with negatively stereotyping 3s as a group, and less to do with finding individuals who are anti-personality growth.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    5s don't really trust their mind, so much as they take it as a sanctuary from the world. 5s are suspicious and fearful of the world. They can self-doubting, but it isn't intrinsic to the type like it is for a 6.

    The 6 core is a knot of doubt and anxiety that permeates everything.
    Thanks, I'd love to hear more about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The type 3 hatred thing always did distress me greatly. I first heard about it while chatting by phone with the Enneagram Monthly editor back around 1992. I couldn't understand it then, and I still can't.

    It's not the hatred part I don't get, but that this seems really out of character for these personality-growth wonks.
    In my limited experience filtered through my own biases and limited perceptions, 3 seems to be among the most hated and 6 among the most pitied in typology discussions. It's pretty weird to me that they're not all seen as (nearly) equally pitiable.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I'm replying to my own post just to add that I really think it has to do with the fact that the type 3 seems to be the type with the least desire for personal growth, that is, growth of a spiritual nature. I don't know if that's true or not.

    I have noticed that around here I sometimes am looked down at as if I am one of those types. I feel the pain of the type 3 who is attacked by those who pretend to inhabit some "higher personal dimension" of reality. A type 3 would probably reply that nobody is on a more advanced level - and indeed, because of their honest understanding of life, 3s are actually ahead of the curve.
    It seems that, just like any type, they might have to be "humbled" by life experience in order to realize that their ego fixation (in this case, a desire to maintain a perfect and desirable 'image') only goes so far. (I just watched the cute lil' film Rango which, in my estimation, captures this for a possible type 3.)

    I think you're right, though; your hypothetical 3 would be on the mark--the "more advanced" level is an ideal, a mere construct.
    --
    I personally strive for growth across all dimensions, to the point of being a perfectionist with respect to myself and my capabilities. I have a hard time "putting it out there" if I feel that it's not going to be perfect. I just plain want to be that ideal, even though it is just an unobtainable construct. One 3 motto captured it well, something along the lines of "everyone looks to be relying on me--better not make a mistake." It was actually that desire for growth that has made me ponder type 3 for myself.

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