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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    Thanks for your input. I could be a 9 or a 6, who knows? At this point I've decided that whatever type I am doesn't really matter, because as you say, the enneagram is no longer useful if I'm not getting anything out of it. I've done just about all the research I can do, and in the end I can't narrow it down any further than this.

    Anyways, I'm actually in the process of inventing my own enneagram type based on my motivations. So far it seems like some sort of 4-9 hybrid...and it's definitely in the image triad. Maybe it'll turn out to be an already existing type...or maybe not. Either way, I'll probably learn something from it.


    when i used to get caught up in trying to figure out my type (or decide my type, maybe i should say, because i think ultimately it's a decision, not a Truth, since all persons contain all enneagram flavors), i would try to back up and ask myself why i was even bothering with the enneagram in the first place - for self-development. at some point it eventually hit me that my most debilitating problem in life is insecurity - and bingo, there was my enneagram answer.

    i don't always fit everything about 6, just like i don't always fit everything about ENFP, but the important thing to me is that the 6 perspective helps me look at certain situations and identify other ways i could handle them. my boyfriend - not sure what type he is, but maybe some kind of 3-9-7 combination - is helping me see life as less of a series of oncoming crises (how 6 of me) and more of a smooth path. it's fascinating... for the first time, i'm not freaking out about everything. i'm learning to see things that aren't ideal to me as either problems that can be handled or bumps that can be taken in stride - not huge obstacles to aggressively tackle before they even arise. i'm learning about balance and equanimity. growing towards 9.

  2. #12
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Type is a theory, it applies to people. People don't apply to the type. If you want to, you can apply a type to yourself. If you don't want to, you don't have to. It's just there to help us understand ourselves.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asterion View Post
    That's not what I've been taught. Most people teach that within every one of us is contained all of these drives. They are connected to each other, and because nobody is perfect, there is almost guaranteed to be one stand out fixation that you're afflicted with.
    That's not what some internet sources say, but then again, perhaps those sources aren't to be trusted. Either way, I agree that within each of us is all the enneagram drives; that as a theoretical model makes more sense given the complex nature of human personality.

    Wednesday doesn't exist, so I don't believe in it. You can believe in whatever you want, you don't need scientific proof to eat, drink and sleep. The guidelines for belief is subjective probability. How likely is it that today is Wednesday? My computer tells me that it is, yesterday seemed to be tuesday, but how certain am I? I've noticed quite a lot of the traits described in the enneagram in myself and others, this is what makes me believe, you don't need proof to live, and you know this.
    Of course Wednesday doesn't exist, Wednesday is nothing but a rigid designator that we attribute to a certain area of time so that we can define and communicate it. It is merely an arbitrary definition that we as a society collectively acknowledge for organizational purposes, but overall is still an artifical idea construct; Wednesday doesn't exit objectively.

    However Wednesday can't be compared to the Enneagram; the enneagram is a theory that attempts to explain certain areas of human psychology in a complex manner; this is no simple definition of things but rather a whole theoretical framework concerning the human mind. Therefore, it either is something that is true or it is false. For what it counts, the enneagram could be inaccurately and wrongly describing human psychology, and thus is not a real theory that can be used to explain physical phenomenon. Thus even if it does makes sense that doesn't mean it truly exists.

  4. #14
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    Yeah. Like the Gregorian calendar (which includes Wednesdays!), the Enneagram is just a construct of ours intended to structure and frame a particular phenomenon. I'd say that it's kind of meaningless to state that Wednesday "exists," just as it should be meaningless to state that a type 9 "exists."

    Regarding the whole notion of 'personal' proof being 'good enough' for the Enneagram to be 'true'.. the entire point of the OP is that she doesn't feel much personal proof in the Enneagram. That can either be due to an incomplete understanding of the theory, or due to the theory not entirely capturing the OP as a person. Strong advocates of the theory will assert the former.

    The sentiment that I'll wind up repeating over and over is this: most scientifically-derived cognitive models sacrifice breadth for depth, and they're domain- and application-specific because they kind of have to be (the Big Five is one glaring exception). Capturing all of the human essence is.. well, difficult. Typology, in general, is more broad but not nearly as deep; as such, it's a great general 'first approximation' but not a whole fat lot more at the moment.

    I say this as someone who happens to see a lot of 'personal truth' in the Enneagram.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    No one has a 'type' becuase types don't exist. All typology systems are but artifical constructs that bring forth arbitrary boxes of personality, behavior, and thought processes. People only think types are objective due to a casual observation of human behavior that at times seems to embody a patter (X person acts like Y, A person acts like B), however there is no actual scientific evidence to fully support this theory. In truth, people are often far too uniqe to be perfectly categorized into neat little boxes; rather we usually identify with the type that possesses the most similar traits concerning us. .
    Pretty much said here what I wanted to say. Essentially, most people should be able to relate to elements of all. There may be a few types where you have almost pathological complexes regarding. For example, most people could probably relate to the type 6 descriptions depending how poorly or well they are composed. However, there might be people out there whose whole lives seem to reflect the extremes of the six gesalts. This person may really relate to the feeling of being pulled in all sorts of directions and a sense of losing their true voice. This may be a particular concern in their life and have significant implications for the rest of their psychological make up. There's really no such thing as a 'type 6 person'. Only people who have particular life experiences and personality traits that deeply align with these arbitrary categories.

    To OP:
    Perhaps a means of addressing type is not about asking what you relate to, but where your deepest complexes, your most significant and recurring life experiences and deepest fears hopes and desires lay. It's hard to address straight on what motivates you. It may be easier to look back on your life and look at the choices, mistakes and recurring themes in your life are.

  6. #16
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    And i'm no champion of any of the psychological type systems either. I take them for what they are, acknowledge their limitations etc.

    I would say that the broader and all encompassing you make a category, the less meaningful it becomes. That said, if you factor in type, tritype and stacking, you have many many variations of type to account for people. I daresay the intention is not to completely describe a person. In fact, the more enneagram strove to be a theory of everything, the more pseudoscientific it would become.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    No one has a 'type' becuase types don't exist. All typology systems are but artifical constructs that bring forth arbitrary boxes of personality, behavior, and thought processes. People only think types are objective due to a casual observation of human behavior that at times seems to embody a patter (X person acts like Y, A person acts like B), however there is no actual scientific evidence to fully support this theory. In truth, people are often far too uniqe to be perfectly categorized into neat little boxes; rather we usually identify with the type that possesses the most similar traits concerning us. Enneagram is a major culprit in this matter; it assumes that we are driven by only one fear, ego motivations, and subsequently personlity and outlook of life. But that simply isn't true; it's rather self evident that many people possess several fears and motivations in life, and any average person will be at least two or three types of the enneagram (this is why the tri-type theory is superior, yet like any tpe system is still inherently flawed). I myself feel as though I possess traits of 4, 6, and 1, and at times even 5, 2, and 9; hell that thread about the 9 types within all of us could count as evidence against the validity of enneagram as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopelandic View Post
    Pretty much said here what I wanted to say. Essentially, most people should be able to relate to elements of all. There may be a few types where you have almost pathological complexes regarding. For example, most people could probably relate to the type 6 descriptions depending how poorly or well they are composed. However, there might be people out there whose whole lives seem to reflect the extremes of the six gesalts. This person may really relate to the feeling of being pulled in all sorts of directions and a sense of losing their true voice. This may be a particular concern in their life and have significant implications for the rest of their psychological make up. There's really no such thing as a 'type 6 person'. Only people who have particular life experiences and personality traits that deeply align with these arbitrary categories.
    I agree with this. I never meant to imply that the types exist objectively, so perhaps I should reword it to be more clear. What I meant was "Is everyone really going to be able to relate strongly to one of the 9 types?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopelandic View Post
    To OP:
    Perhaps a means of addressing type is not about asking what you relate to, but where your deepest complexes, your most significant and recurring life experiences and deepest fears hopes and desires lay. It's hard to address straight on what motivates you. It may be easier to look back on your life and look at the choices, mistakes and recurring themes in your life are.
    Already done that. I analyzed my motivations and made up my own type based on those. I found that my basic desire corresponds to 4's, but my basic fear is completely different, which changes things up a bit and gives me a different approach than what I think most 4's would have. Though it's still a work in progress at the moment and is subject to change.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I agree with this. I never meant to imply that the types exist objectively, so perhaps I should reword it to be more clear. What I meant was "Is everyone really going to be able to relate strongly to one of the 9 types?"
    Some people really do mean to imply that. Your take is a lot more meaningful

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopelandic View Post
    Pretty much said here what I wanted to say. Essentially, most people should be able to relate to elements of all. There may be a few types where you have almost pathological complexes regarding. For example, most people could probably relate to the type 6 descriptions depending how poorly or well they are composed. However, there might be people out there whose whole lives seem to reflect the extremes of the six gesalts. This person may really relate to the feeling of being pulled in all sorts of directions and a sense of losing their true voice. This may be a particular concern in their life and have significant implications for the rest of their psychological make up. There's really no such thing as a 'type 6 person'. Only people who have particular life experiences and personality traits that deeply align with these arbitrary categories.
    I concur

    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I never meant to imply that the types exist objectively, so perhaps I should reword it to be more clear. What I meant was "Is everyone really going to be able to relate strongly to one of the 9 types?"
    Yes and no; everyone is different, some people will relate very strongly with only one type, while others will relate evenly with all types, while some will relate with only a few types.

  10. #20
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    Round n round the crazy carousel, ugh. What a headache.

    thinking of you

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