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  1. #61
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    You may be overly focused on details -- it's not about "caring" about groups/status, it's about noticing it. I'm So dominant and I couldn't care less about status. But I can't help but see who's friends with whom, who's ambivalent about whom, who groups with what crew of people because of what. Not that I take part in any of it, but I'm very aware of social networking when it's taking place (i.e. all the time, because it doesn't stop!). And it's not about "wanting" to fit in -- it's about noticing when you don't. Some people are oblivious to that, but if you're aware of social dynamics, that also means you're aware of norms. You know what's "normal", but that doesn't mean you follow that norm, or even want to follow it, just like Vagrant Farce said.

    From all the posts of yours that I've read in this thread, you definitely seem So, especially in that last regard.

    Also regarding Sx -- desiring close friendships only matters to instinctual variants in a relative degree. As much as you want intimacy, how often do you think about that need? Also keep in mind that Sx is about more than just intimacy and relationships -- it's about intensity of experience. I have an Sx/Sp friend, and the type of intensity he actively seeks out is the type that involves very serious, nonstop, five hour long conversations about life, love, science and philosophy (he's an ENFJ). But any other intense "intimate" experience could be included here. In general, you seem much more Sp and So than you do Sx -- your communication style and the things you take notice of in your life (yes I know this is a big generalization from very little data but hear me out) don't seem all that Sx relatively speaking. You only mentioned wanting a close friend that one time, and the rest of the time it was all security, reclusiveness from groups, abnormality.
    I'm absolutely terrible at social networking. I'm terrible at organizing get-togethers, and I often forget to stay in touch with people, or else keep putting it off. And I'm pretty oblivious to who did what and who likes who and all that. I'm indifferent. And don't even get me started on names and faces. I honestly cannot name more than 3 people who live in the same dorm as me. I probably couldn't even recognize the girl who lives across the hallway from me in any other setting.

    And if sx "intensity" means seeking excitement and thrills, I really can't relate to that either. This time I may have to decide on neither sx nor so. See what I mean? :P

  2. #62
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I'm absolutely terrible at social networking. I'm terrible at organizing get-togethers, and I often forget to stay in touch with people, or else keep putting it off. And I'm pretty oblivious to who did what and who likes who and all that. I'm indifferent. And don't even get me started on names and faces. I honestly cannot name more than 3 people who live in the same dorm as me. I probably couldn't even recognize the girl who lives across the hallway from me in any other setting.

    And if sx "intensity" means seeking excitement and thrills, I really can't relate to that either. This time I may have to decide on neither sx nor so. See what I mean? :P
    These don't exclude SO either. @EJCC's description is excellent but she is an extrovert so she will use it to stay in touch with people more. On the other hand, I'm borderline recluse at times and am hopeless at names and faces too. It can manifest as an aversion to socialising and social structures because you find them oppressive. You don't have to like engaging in these social elements to be SO, you just have to be more aware of them. For example, I would say I despise networking a great deal more than most sp and sx doms, because I'm more conscious of, and bothered by, both the pressures to partake in it and in my deficiencies in doing so.

    It's like how some sp doms are adrenaline junkies and participate in all sorts of adventure sports. This is because sp is really about being focused on comfort, safety and well-being - whether you seek it out or wantonly disregard it.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #63
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    These don't exclude SO either. @EJCC's descriptions is excellent but she is an extrovert so she will use it to stay in touch with people more. On the other hand, I'm borderline recluse at times and am hopeless at names and faces too. It can manifest as an aversion to socialising and social structures because you find them oppressive. You don't have to like engaging in these social elements to be SO, you just have to be more aware of them. For example, I would say I despise networking a great deal more than most sp and sx doms, because I'm more conscious of, and bothered by, both the pressures to partake in it and in my deficiencies in doing so.
    Okay, I probably am some sort of So then. Either sp/so or so/sp.

  4. #64
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC
    Also regarding Sx -- desiring close friendships only matters to instinctual variants in a relative degree. As much as you want intimacy, how often do you think about that need? Also keep in mind that Sx is about more than just intimacy and relationships -- it's about intensity of experience. I have an Sx/Sp friend, and the type of intensity he actively seeks out is the type that involves very serious, nonstop, five hour long conversations about life, love, science and philosophy (he's an ENFJ). But any other intense "intimate" experience could be included here. In general, you seem much more Sp and So than you do Sx -- your communication style and the things you take notice of in your life (yes I know this is a big generalization from very little data but hear me out) don't seem all that Sx relatively speaking.
    !

    another way of presenting SX -

    it's about your one-on-one relationships with other entities. people, activities, your environment, sensations, ideas. to be an sx-dom is to frequently be all-consumed by singular entities. you have a very strong sense of the quality of the relationship between yourself and whatever it is you are interacting with / dreaming of - be it a very strong sense of "vibe" and attraction (or lack thereof) between yourself and another person, or delving totally into a conversation, or planning a trip, or perfecting a theory. you gain in quality of singular experience but lose the sense of wholeness in SO and sense of self in SP... and you have a hard time interacting with (/keeping track of) multiple things at once. i suppose it's about intensity in the sense that you are very aware of intensity... not that you necessarily always are seeking it, but you always are hyperaware of it. though at least personally this may be exacerbated by my 6ness!

    from what i have read about you, revlis, i do not get the sense of SX.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Tiger Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    another way of presenting SX:

    it's about your one-on-one relationships with other entities. people, activities, your environment, sensations, ideas. to be an sx-dom is to frequently be all-consumed by singular entities. you have a very strong sense of the quality of the relationship between yourself and whatever it is you are interacting with - be it a very strong sense of "vibe" and attraction (or lack thereof) between yourself and another person, or delving totally into a conversation. you gain in quality of singular experience but lose the sense of wholeness in SO and sense of self in SP.

    fwiw, none of what you've described sounds SX to me.
    I agree with 99% of this. I don't personally lose wholeness or self in my interactions, I just put a higher value and emphasis on the one-on-one interaction, the singularity of experience. I observe and appreciate the other aspects but invest more in the nurturing of the sx type interaction. As sp is a close second for me, if I weren't very cognizant of the 'big picture' at all times, I would constantly be surprised by elements outside of the sx influence and would feel vulnerable which the sp in me cannot tolerate. I understand and can see the so influence but it does not play nearly as important a role in my maneuvering through life, except when it must.
    INTJ 5w4 sx/sp 584 ILI-Ni

  6. #66
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    I think you're a phobic 6 with a 5 wing.
    I'm reading about 6...and so far it fits. At least partially. A lot of parts don't fit me at all, but there are also a lot of parts that fit me perfectly. The integration and disintegration, and even the security point (going to average 9) fit me very well. I think the parts that don't fit are mostly the counter-phobic parts. I'll have to look into this more though.

  7. #67
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzy View Post
    For me, being called "average" is nearly the same as being called a "failure". If I'm not outstanding, notable or above average in what I'm doing, then I've failed. I haven't done well enough.
    That's interesting! Maybe that's the real difference between a 5w4 and a 4w5. Ultimately, 5s seem to focus more on competency, while 4s are more willing to just "fail with style" (especially if they are not particularly healthy). As a 4w5, I think I concentrate on being 'special' first, then if that leads to something 'above average', that's great

    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I'm reading about 6...and so far it fits. At least partially. A lot of parts don't fit me at all, but there are also a lot of parts that fit me perfectly. The integration and disintegration, and even the security point (going to average 9) fit me very well. I think the parts that don't fit are mostly the counter-phobic parts. I'll have to look into this more though.
    From my understanding, I think some phobic 6s never swing to the counter-phobic side (?)
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  8. #68
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    From my understanding, I think some phobic 6s never swing to the counter-phobic side (?)
    I've been wondering about the whole phobic and counter-phobic thing. Back when I was trying to figure out my type, all I could think when I read the descriptions of those two styles was "Isn't everyone either phobic or counterphobic?" If a person has fears, they're either going to act on that fear by avoiding it, or act on that fear by trying to eliminate it. It's the nature of fears, you know?

    So I guess I have a derailing question and a non-derailing comment:
    Non-derailing comment: By the logic I used above (which may not be correct?), it would make perfect sense that a 6 could always be phobic, as some people choose never to confront their fears.
    Derailing question: What makes type 6 phobia and counter-phobia different from anyone else's?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  9. #69
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Derailing question: What makes type 6 phobia and counter-phobia different from anyone else's?
    The six type is part of the head triad, which means that they are driven by an over-active and fearful mind. Compared to the other two types in the head triad, Sixes express this fear very openly - unlike Fives who keep it to themselves, and Sevens who mask it with cocky narcissism. So "phobic" and "counter-phobic" are just two ways of expressing the same fearful compulsion, without really addressing it.

    The types outside the head triad aren't really as driven by fear as these three types, or certainly not in the same way - they have their own problems.
    Hello

  10. #70
    Senior Member Vizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    That's interesting! Maybe that's the real difference between a 5w4 and a 4w5. Ultimately, 5s seem to focus more on competency, while 4s are more willing to just "fail with style" (especially if they are not particularly healthy). As a 4w5, I think I concentrate on being 'special' first, then if that leads to something 'above average', that's great
    That theory sounds good to me.

    Fail with style, eh? If I was going to fail at all, I'd rather it be in an unremarkable way that no one will even remember. If I'm not good enough for my crush, then I'd rather not be visible to him at all. Pretty high standards. Being 'above average' or 'outstanding' at something pretty much ticks the 'special' box, in my case.

    Anyway, this isn't about me.

    I just wanted to add that the instinctual variants discussion has been fascinating.
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