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Thread: Enneagram???

  1. #21
    Junior Member littlemissgiggles's Avatar
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    I've had an easier time figuring out my enneagram type than my MBTI type.

    I find this is because my behavior changes to fit certain situations, while my motivations have been similar throughout my life.

    I'm a type 6 and an iNtuitive, not an SJ. Funny, my sister is ISFJ and a type 4.

    I think that the enneagram is quite a bit based on one's early life. For example, I like people a lot but I never know what to expect from them. I was teased a lot in elementary school so I still have issues trusting certain people. I also had young parents who didn't go to college and put unconscious stress on me to do well in school. I used to be a type 3 until I realized that they would love me no matter how well I did...then I began looking outside myself, developing into a 6 as I realized some sort of quantified achievement wasn't everything.

    My sister felt like she lived in my shadow for a lot of her childhood, which may have caused her to develop into a type 4...If she constantly fell short of me and my achievements, she felt inadequate, so she found a way to make my parents appreciate her: by being completely different so there could be no comparison. She's also the only Sensor in a house full of iNtuitives, which could be another issue; she already feels different.

    My mother is an xNFJ type 2. She grew up under an ESFJ mother who placed on her the assumption that the more you take care of people, the more they (are supposed to) love you back.

    All of this is unconscious, of course. You have to look down deep to see what motivates you, and what you need. I can type my mother and sister because I've lived with them my whole life (and my mom's into the enneagram), but you can't type anyone you meet just a few times, unless they're unhealthy and their motivations are obvious.

    Think of the enneagram as a sort of self-help tool. It's much more internal than the MBTI. For example, as a type 6, when I get paranoid I have to remember that I'm naturally overly anxious and over-think relationships, and my self-doubt is often unfounded, though it often seems very real. Recognizing my tendencies can help me calm down a bit.

  2. #22
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have never been able to figure out my type and am very skeptical of it as well.

    It seems to tell a person's desires and fears..

    But as the OP mentioned, those are ever-changing (at least for a healthy person, I would think).

  3. #23
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    MBTI>Enneagram!
    Had to say it..

  4. #24

    Default I really do want to understand people and their emotions

    The systems I've run into to understand people have all left me rater skeptical and wanting to yell "B.S!" (Yes. Including Myer-Briggs, and the Five Factor Model)

    But nevertheless, I have decided to make a go at learning the enneagram more deeply. I really do want to understand people and their emotions.

    I did a mind-map based on reading:
    Enneagram Institute of Queensland: Home

    Many questions came to mind:
    1. Why are the directions of (dis)integration the way they are?
    2. How come I relate to the fear of 8 and the desire of 7 despite the fact that following our desires is purported to be the path to health?
    3. How does this relate to levels of development?
    4. Why are the wings only the ones that are adjacent types on the circle?
    5. How do the wings really interact with the basic type? (I already know which ones do)
    6. How does the basic emotion in the triad interact with the basic fears and basic desires?
    7. Why are the levels of develeoment placed the way they are?
    8. How do the instincts interact with the basic types?
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  5. #25
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Personally I found the enneagram easy to integrate into my overall type. It kind of explains more of the intricacies of being a sociable INTP who's more obsessed with balance than the unattainable "truth".

    Still, each to their own.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #26
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Personally, I believe Enneagram type is partly inherent and partly due to nurturance, much like MBTT type and Keirsey Temperament. Not too long ago, I believed it was purely nurtured, and that the mystical bullshit surrounding one's type being evident at birth was just that; bullshit. However, I also - not too long ago - had a revelation that even though the "childhood pattern" of the Eight that Riso & Hudson refer to many times over didn't at all apply to me, and yet the traits of the Eight remained within me. I can't really see where they come from, so the only explanation is that I was born with them. However, there have been instances where I've been significantly fucked over in life, which have no doubt led me to experience parts of the Eight I would probably have never experienced had I not been fucked over.

    Same goes for MBTT type; I was brought up in a fundamentally intellectual environment by my father; he loved to come out with all the facts and theories. I was brought up to always have a book on the go, even one non-fiction and one fiction. I was brought up to paint on a Saturday morning, and be creative. However, some of this creativity and intellect was certainly not instilled within me; I am inherently intellectual. Why? Because my brother is more creative than me IMO, and he's an ESXP; he fits the bill for Keirsey's Artisan temperament perfectly, while I fit his Rational temperament far better. And yet we were brought up in the same environment, so natural differences can be the only reasonable explanation for this.

  7. #27
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Now I've finished thread-whoring, I'll get back onto the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by littlemissgiggles View Post
    I've had an easier time figuring out my enneagram type than my MBTI type.

    I find this is because my behavior changes to fit certain situations, while my motivations have been similar throughout my life.
    But Myers-Briggs isn't about behaviouristic tendencies; it's about the cognitive processes that drive said behaviour. An ISFJ and an ENTP may act in exactly the same way, but that doesn't mean they're driven by the same process.

    I'm a type 6 and an iNtuitive, not an SJ. Funny, my sister is ISFJ and a type 4.
    I would love to meet your sister. I think she's been typed incorrectly in either one or both instances.

    My sister felt like she lived in my shadow for a lot of her childhood, which may have caused her to develop into a type 4...If she constantly fell short of me and my achievements, she felt inadequate, so she found a way to make my parents appreciate her: by being completely different so there could be no comparison. She's also the only Sensor in a house full of iNtuitives, which could be another issue; she already feels different.
    Have you ever entertained the notion that she's a Three? Maybe with a Four wing? I think that you could easily be misinterpreting the Four need to be special with the Three's need of approval and praise.

    Think of the enneagram as a sort of self-help tool. It's much more internal than the MBTI. For example, as a type 6, when I get paranoid I have to remember that I'm naturally overly anxious and over-think relationships, and my self-doubt is often unfounded, though it often seems very real. Recognizing my tendencies can help me calm down a bit.
    I think you've got the grasp of the point of the Enneagram.

    littlemissgiggles, I'm interested to know whether or not you experienced the childhood pattern of the Six, as described by R&H.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    MBTI>Enneagram!
    Had to say it..
    I'd like to know what you think is practical about MBTI.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Why are the directions of (dis)integration the way they are?
    The only explanation I can come up with is that either those who came up with the idea of the Enneagram of personality were geniuses, or it's so mystical it's unanswerable. I'd love to hear what others think of this actually.

    How come I relate to the fear of 8 and the desire of 7 despite the fact that following our desires is purported to be the path to health?
    I think the plausible explanation is that either you're misinterpreting or not grapsing the essence of one or both fears and desires, or your introspective skills aren't as good as you think. I'm more inclined to think the former, because it's such an easy mistake to make. I made it, initially. I thought I could be a Seven, but then analyse it more carefully. Who actually doesn't want to be satisfied? And then you have to ask yourself if it is your absolute, main driving force in life. Do you employ the techniques used by the Seven to gain their kind of satisfaction?

    I've just thought of another explanation, that lies not in your own flaws, but in the flaws of the description. Basically, it could be that the description is either very easy to misinterpet (or too easy to interpet; that is, it's too vague or Foreresque) or poorly written or described.

    Why are the wings only the ones that are adjacent types on the circle?
    Again, mysterious. Someone else please answer this; I'd love to hear an explanation.
    How do the wings really interact with the basic type? (I already know which ones do)
    There's a good bit in a few of the Riso & Hudson books about wings. Some are sceptical of wing theory. Essentially, the wing provides behaviours which are sometimes complementary, sometimes even contradictory to the base type. For example, take an Eight with a Nine wing. The Eight is a powerful, aggressive and dominating individual. The Nine, by contrast, is easygoing, laid-back and entirely unassuming. So how can such a type as the 8w9 exist? Quite simply, they maintain the base motivations of the Eight, while assuming some characteristics and behavioural tendencies of the Nine. For example, upon meeting someone new, an 8w9 might quietly and tactically size them up, evaluating how powerful or effective they might be. This can be true in both a business and a social situation. From the outside, they look like a placid, possible even ineffective, individual. Inside, there are pure, instinctive anger issues, just like any other Eight. The difference between the Nine and the 8w9 lies in their motivations. Also, many report being able to "feel" or "sense" a powerful bear-like (funny, since R&H term the 8w9 "the Bear") energy in the 8w9 that they don't get with the Nine.

    How does the basic emotion in the triad interact with the basic fears and basic desires?
    To which triad are you referring?

    Why are the levels of develeoment placed the way they are?
    I think this is less down to mystery; more down to R&H's theorising. As far as I'm concerned, they're the only two major Enneagramists who use the Levels of Health.

    How do the instincts interact with the basic types?
    I assume you're talking about subtypes and stackings - so (social), sp (self-preservationist), sx (sexual) - yes?

  8. #28
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I just took the online test at this site and I am a 3w4. Depending on my mood I can score 1 :eek: but usually it's 3w4.

    PS If you want to save your results you need to register prior to taking the test.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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