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Thread: Enneagram???

  1. #11
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    How does it add to MBTI type?
    It doesn't "add" anything. They're completely different systems. I'd still like to know the practical value of MBTI, because the Enneagram has a hell of a lot of practicality, as does socionics.

    Any book recommendations about Enneagram types?
    The Wisdom of the Enneagram by Riso & Hudson. Once you read that through, you'll be an enlightened individual concerning the Enneagram. If you have any comment after reading that, you'll command great respect from me, because you'll be entirely in the know; moreso than I am (I haven't read it in its entirety), and thus you'll be like my mentor.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvereX View Post
    enneagram type is about primary and secondary motivations....the why you do things
    mbti is about how
    That's actually a very good simple explanation regarding the Enneagram and MBTT respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    If it's about motivation, then does Enneagram type change over time because motivations certainly do change? Or what do you mean by motivation?
    Motivation in the Enneagram is much deeper than what we generally consider to be motivations. It's something you essentially live by, even if you're completely unaware of it. Identifying your type can help you to in turn recognise your inner drive; your deep passion for living; your raison d'etre. Without this, you're essentially a slave to yourself, so the Enneagram can be seen as a release from the bounds created. Your Enneagram type is not a good thing. It's not something you show off in a signature with pride. You don't want to be a Six, or a Two, or an Eight. That's the point; you want to release yourself from those shitty qualities associated with the type of person you are. It's not about getting rid of your personality, as "Transcendence" is commonly misinterpreted as. It's about freeing yourself from things that make you an unpleasant person, on levels both to yourself and to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    How can I identify Enneagram types in people if it's about motivation?
    It's essentially all based on speculation, which one could say is a flaw of the Enneagram; that you can't really use it for others. Rather, it's a self-help tool. Nonetheless, you can read about the behaviour of the different types, and induce that a certain person is a particular type based on the behaviour they're exhibiting. The flaw in this method lies in the fact that you could get the person's type entirely wrong, and your strategy for cooperating and living with them (if they're close to you) could be entirely destructive. There's little harm in typing celebrities and other famous figures, however.

    How can I identify hidden motivations?
    If you look at the Disintegration and Integration points, this should help you. For example, you're trying to pin someone down, and they look like a Three, but they're unhealthy. So you think "this person could be a Six".

  2. #12
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I hate how the internet resources for the enneagram are lacking. I was pretty convinced I was a 5w6 for a while, but having found a different resource describing 5w4, now I'm just confused.

    People should write better ones. Yes, I'm talking to you, reader who knows more than me.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #13
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Sorry - I still don't get it.

    I have read some enneagram books already. They didn't help me to figure out the big idea behind the enneagram. :confused: Or is there a big idea behind it all?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    Sorry - I still don't get it.

    I have read some enneagram books already. They didn't help me to figure out the big idea behind the enneagram. :confused: Or is there a big idea behind it all?
    Well, it's a typology/archetype system. What's the "big idea" behind Myers-Briggs? It's not a typology meant to augment MBTI; it's just a different way of presenting personality type.

    Your enneagram type doesn't change, but there is still movement accounted for. I am a 4, but sometimes I seem like a sucky 2 (especially if I'm going through a rough spot and am not handling it well) and sometimes I seem like a 1. But I have the basic motivation of neither 2 nor 1. These motivations are very, very basic and probably aren't going to change. My motivation is to understand myself as significant/individual, and other motivations are subordinate to that.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra;191100[I
    The Wisdom of the Enneagram [/I]by Riso & Hudson. Once you read that through, you'll be an enlightened individual concerning the Enneagram.
    I recommend any of their books highly if you want to understand a systematic approach towards the Enneagram theory.

    Avoid most of the other crap (Palmer, etc.), it's all just the "pop pysch" version (imo).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Avoid most of the other crap (Palmer, etc.), it's all just the "pop pysch" version (imo).
    There is, you know, a certain amount of irony on a MBTI board when someone talks about pop psych...
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  7. #17
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Is it possible to be 5w4 and INFP, since INFPs are often reserved about expressing emotions..

  8. #18
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    Is it possible to be 5w4 and INFP, since INFPs are often reserved about expressing emotions..
    of course
    its just rare

    any type can be any enneagram number,
    at least i think
    I N V I C T U S

  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    My approach to it has been to compare it to more common factors such as extraversion/introversion, and also Keirsey's "Role-Informative-Role Directive" (which are tied to T/F and J/P, and used in Linda Berens' Interaction Styles).
    So the extraverts would seem to be 3, 7 and 8. The Introverts would be 4, 5, and to a certain extent, 6. (9 could also be included, but I see it as more more "moderate" in both scales, when you really look at it). Informative or people-oriented would be 2, 6 and 7. Directive, or task-oriented would be 1, 5 and 8. Moderate E/I: 1, 2, 9. Moderate task/people orientation: 3, 4, 9.

    Supporting all of this, is that The Enneagram: a Journey of Self Discovery (1984) by Maria Beesing, Bob Nogosek, and Pat O'Leary group the Enneagram styles according to Dependent Types (2,6,7), Aggressive Types (8,3,1), and Withdrawing Types (5,9,4). The Dependent types all would be the people-oriented types, which will be more dependant on others for acceptance. The Aggressive types all tend towards "extraversion" and "directiveness". The Withdrawing types together are all moderate to low in "introversion" and/or "directiveness".

    This then gives you a framework for looking for MBTI comparisons. E/I is E/I, or course. Role-Informative is NP or SF, while Role-Directive is NJ or ST. So for basic social skills, 5 would be IST/INJ, 7, ESF/ENP, 8, EST/ENJ, and either 6 or 9 could be ISF/INJ. 1-4 would be inbetween and could go either way. Like 1 might be follow either 5 (I type) or 8 (E type), etc.

    Of course, there are many other reasons it may not always work out exactly like this, and "any type can come out as any Enneagram number". Like if the Interaction Styles correspond more to the Social area, the Keirseyan "temperament" grouping might correspond to the "Self-Preservation" area. A person's preference for one of the Instinctual Variants might change it. A 7sp might be an SP. They often say 6's are SJ-ish, but I think their reason for "needing order" is different and less concrete, so a 6 would be more NF-ish.

  10. #20
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    I have *never* been able to figure out my Enneagram type.

    Have any of you had any use/success with it?

    I'll be honest, I remain very... skeptical of it.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

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