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Thread: 9's and 2's

  1. #1
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Default 9's and 2's

    Hello all,

    After some thought and introspection I've come to the conclusion I may very well be a Type 9 and not a Type 2. While I do have a strong need to be needed, I've concluded that my reasons for my greatest fear (not being loved or wanted) wasn't motivated by a need to be needed but rather from a desire to maintain harmony.

    Anywho, I thought a discussion might be interesting so I ask you, TypoC: What are your opinions on the differences between 9's and 2's and how often, if at all, do you think they're mistyped?
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    It helps to recognise that they sit in different triads.

    • 9s are part of the body or gut triad, and so their fixation emerges from a need to maintain some sort of overinflated physical presence - in this case, it's a need to maintain a sense of harmony by being overly serene and malleable.
    • 2s are part of the heart or emotion triad, and so their fixation emerges from a need to embody an overinflated self-image - in this case, it's a need to champion the needs of others in favour of their own.


    I've also found that 2s tend to be belligerent and intense when pathological, whereas 9s tend to be passive-aggressive and numbed out. Both tend to be dependant on others, though - that's probably where mistyping comes from.
    Hello

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    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Subscribed.

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    Glycerine
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    I get the impression that 9s will help others because they need people around them to be happy in order to get inner peace while 2s "need to be needed".

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    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I get the impression that 9s will help others because they need people around them to be happy in order to get inner peace while 2s "need to be needed".
    That's the thing with me: I like other people around me to be happy and in fact I often WANT to be happy because doing so gives me a sense of peace. What I am having difficulty with is determining whether I'm doing it because I want that sense of inner peace or because I want the people around me to want to have me around as I fear being abandoned or undesired.

    So confusing!
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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    Senior Member SRT's Avatar
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    I'm seeing it right now as a dichotomy of controlling oneself vs. controlling others out of a fear of doing the opposite. I.e. a 9's focus will be on their own reactions when dealing with others out of a fear of being overbearing (or thought that way by others), while a 2's focus will be on others for a fear of being self-centered (or thought that way by others). So a 9 will come off as more passive, while a 2 more directive. I just had this thought, so maybe another way of thinking it: 9 will help others so as not to be responsible for their own actions and consequences, while 2 helps others because they feel they know the better solution (?).

    I like using the "sin" approach; so Sloth (9) vs Pride (2)



    P.S. I'm talking out of my ass here.


    P.P.S. I'm totally going to keep track of this thread 'cause Enneagram is confusing as hell to me...
    Everything that I express is simply an opinion with varying levels of support

    If I seem like a different type to you, I hereby give you permission to type me however you want.

  7. #7
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    That's the thing with me: I like other people around me to be happy and in fact I often WANT to be happy because doing so gives me a sense of peace. What I am having difficulty with is determining whether I'm doing it because I want that sense of inner peace or because I want the people around me to want to have me around as I fear being abandoned or undesired.

    So confusing!
    I don't see why you can't feel both of those things. It certainly happens in real people. The trouble is type descriptions can't overlap like that, or else they'd cease to be unique. And I think that was the whole point (the uniqueness of each type) when it's creators came up with typology. You can't describe 5 different types as unique types that almost sound just alike. There would be no theory to buy. I think in real people these typological ideas are on a sliding scale and quite overlapping, but the descriptions are separating. So.. this doesn't always help you pin point your type. I think doing so would require some time and self-awareness and honesty, where you observe your own patterns and natural responses. It might take time. And you'd better hope and pray that you're not a dynamic person who might change or grow.

    Anyways, if I'm going to throw a type out, I'll say you're a 9.

    PS - I'm struggling with deciding between these two types for myself as well.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I don't see why you can't feel both of those things. It certainly happens in real people. The trouble is type descriptions can't overlap like that, or else they'd cease to be unique. And I think that was the whole point (the uniqueness of each type) when it's creators came up with typology. You can't describe 5 different types as unique types that almost sound just alike. There would be no theory to buy. I think in real people these typological ideas are on a sliding scale and quite overlapping, but the descriptions are separating. So.. this doesn't always help you pin point your type. I think doing so would require some time and self-awareness and honesty, where you observe your own patterns and natural responses. It might take time. And you'd better hope and pray that you're not a dynamic person who might change or grow.
    I can see what it is your saying and I'm inclined to agree. I suppose I'm just looking to fit in with a classification so that I can help identify my weaknesses and such.

    As to the bolded though, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. I've never known you to be snarky but just in case you weren't: I would actually like to change or grow, thanks :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Anyways, if I'm going to throw a type out, I'll say you're a 9.

    PS - I'm struggling with deciding between these two types for myself as well.
    I'm beginning to suspect as much too, it's just so many of the Two descriptions describe me pretty well, but then so do the 9's.

    Blarg!

    And it was actually your own search that prompted me to do the same
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I don't see why you can't feel both of those things. It certainly happens in real people. The trouble is type descriptions can't overlap like that, or else they'd cease to be unique. And I think that was the whole point (the uniqueness of each type) when it's creators came up with typology. You can't describe 5 different types as unique types that almost sound just alike. There would be no theory to buy. I think in real people these typological ideas are on a sliding scale and quite overlapping, but the descriptions are separating. So.. this doesn't always help you pin point your type. I think doing so would require some time and self-awareness and honesty, where you observe your own patterns and natural responses. It might take time. And you'd better hope and pray that you're not a dynamic person who might change or grow.

    Anyways, if I'm going to throw a type out, I'll say you're a 9.

    PS - I'm struggling with deciding between these two types for myself as well.
    If you believe in tri-type, you can be both a 2 and a 9. One is the primary type and the other could be 2nd or 3rd. You have one from each triad and the three are in order.

    Example - I thought I was an 8 but there were parts of 3 and 6 that fit as well. Turns out I'm actually 638. It means in terms of reaction - first mind (6), then heart (3), then body/action (8).

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  10. #10
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    I had trouble deciding between these two as well (occasionally I still do) because there is a lot of overlapping with me. Also because I'm not the ExFJ-esque 2 that many profiles like to emphasize on.

    I agree with Vagrant's point about separating the triads more. I relate to the Feeling center more than the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce
    At some point in their development, Twos, Threes, and Fours feel that they have lost contact with their value and with their identify. They adopt a false belief that they are worthless, leading to an underlying feeling of shame. To compensate, the personality tries to create and maintain a personal identity that will overcome these feelings.
    Although anger and shame are a bit neck and neck, I realized that my anger was rooted in shame (angry about having to feel shame).

    There is a general pattern I notice I tend to repeat: adjusting to outer expectations to feel that I am doing good, until I reach a point of angry stress (8) and become so preoccupied with protecting myself from others and their attempts to "change", "drain", or "take advantage" of me that it looks very uncharacteristically hostile and insensitive on the outside.

    Conversely, at my best I feel that I can be freely self-expressive, self-absorbed, and self-accepting without risking the state of being good or worthy of love (4). I disregard others once more, but in a much less defensive way.

    I've read that 9s will tend to suppress things for the sake of peace and internal balance, and that 2s will tend to suppress and deny things for the sake of maintaining their chosen ideal self. I tend to do both, but I have the strongest reaction to the latter. It took me a while to sit and go through all of my unpleasantness, and still believe that I am worthy of positive things in spite of it. It can still be troublesome to acknowledge certain needs of mine, but now, simply because they are draining...

    Quote Originally Posted by Triunity
    Twos give in abundance the type of validation they need
    My primary focus is not on maintaining harmony in itself, but rather on making others feel valued, understood, accepted, and loved; on helping those who are struggling with their sense of identity or worth. My ideal self-image is not of a person that is serene and easy-going, but rather of one that can aid or positively affect others who are in need of being positively affected.

    It's important to note too, that I am still ultimately self-focused in a way. Others set the stage for me to prove to myself and to...something higher (it feels like this) that I am capable of good and of positive contributions and thus worthy of positive things like love after all. The overtone is almost always one of (a) making up for some moment in time in which I perceived myself not to be worthy of these things, or (b) countering the existence of such feelings both in myself as well as in others.

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce
    Despite feeling rejected, they feel they only have one gift to offer to prevent future rejection. Their sense of self is based on countering this rejection by offering their talent.
    Like so.

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